Korsa DDS (Birmingham/UK Graffiti Writer)

Episode 121

KORSA DDS (BIRMINGHAM/UK GRAFFITI WRITER)

This week we take a trip into the dark side with one of Birmingham's well documented Graff Kings. As dearly beloved in his city by artists and creatives alike, Korsa of DDS is a lone star in his era of UK Graffiti in the Black Country. Well recognised for his roadsides and roof tops of the mid 90's, Korsa became the figurehead of Birmingham graff and an honourable member of the london crew DDS, takng out both cities and working to both landscapes with ease. Heres his story, get ready for the real.. Documenting the Graffiti Artists of History past, before their critical acclaims and contributions to the urban arts.

Disclaimer: This presentation is for documentation and educational purposes only. No hard drive copies, footage or records of any interviews are held by Killa Kela and once uploaded to the outlets listed below, those are the only records in existence. Any illegal activity discussed is neither encouraged, supported or incited.

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KORSA
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KILLA KELA PODCAST (TRANSCRIPT) Korsa DDS (Birmingham/UK Graffiti Writer)

Killa Kela:

Hold tight to our people's graffiti kings, ladies and gentlemen this is the Killa Kela podcast. Coming to you live and direct central London, as central as you need to be. You know this is a subscription-based thing so don't front. Don't sleep I repeat do not sleep on this repeat. 

Korsa:That!

KK:Yeah, you hear the legends inside the place. Boy, I can't believe it's like Birmingham to London. I mean I know you but your …your local. Ladies and gentlemen the mighty Korsa inside the ride

Korsa:Reppin 

KK:What you saying?

Korsa:I'm good you know, family, good, good, yeah .

KK:I said it’s love…it's lovely to have you in, you know what I mean, It's and …and a reflection a true reflection of what a podcast is doing man. In fact, that you know you come through and you just fuck that I’m coming down on this one. I’m doing this one you know, and you got crew inside the place, make some noise crew.

Crew:OHHH!!!

Korsa:Hold tight, Klutz, hold tight Birmingham massive. Hold tight, all my DDS brothers also FKS, NHS, Nasty happy to represent him. Also hold tight, Mega. Hold tight Annoy. Hold tight, all the other magnums that know who they are yeah, out there yeah. If you're not, yeah, step back mother fucker. Sorry about the swearing. 

KK:That’s alright, it’s cool. Swear all you like. You've been warmed by the power swearing.  Korsa for those of you who don't know, legendary. I mean I say that because we've got music heads inside the place too. Korsa is a …a veteran leader and pioneer in the Birmingham area. I'm gonna say pioneer.  I’m gonna throw it out there bro, like but you really let that you… you did the crossing you came from over there to here but I don't know anyone who is more powerful in the tooth the to hold on first and secondary leading cities of the UK … you King them all. You the King. You king.

Korsa:okay, yeah thank you I appreciate.

KK:Truthful truth yeah. but, bro, how are you?

Korsa:I'm good I'm really good. Right back my life it’s good. Yeah I'm out there do my thing man, if you want in the artwork doing your… you just get hit me on Insta stuff. I'll do that stuff you know.

KK:But it's the thing is, I could see it as like a progression on what's going on right now and the scene is there's…. there's definitely a lot of a focus on I know…I… I feel like the … the legacy holders should be the ones who…

Korsa:The one who make their money 

KK:The ones who make their money, make the turn around.

Korsa:Pay the dues. Anything you do in life, yeah there's too many of these little fake-ass job so you tried to sell shit, a make money off the back of our tradition of our legacy. It’s not good. It’s not good.

KK:yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the kind of thing that look fortunately there's the platform's a very fucking fruitful and they're giving right now. I…

Korsa:Nah. Nah, not at all. Not at all… Graffiti is becoming a fashionable thing, right now. It’s a different breeds of people doing it these days. Not the generation that I'm from you know the generation that the Teach is from. The zombys.  The Teachs the Cosas, there's a whole new there's a whole new generation of writers out there … there that haven’t got the same morals. They haven't like the same understanding of graff, or of that life, in general .

KK:A graffiti writer’s life. I mean, I think it's all about documenting that shit with podcast because I'm… one thing that I'm really engaged with his like the whole tapestry of it all… is just… just how …how characters integrate and you know this is subcultural in itself.

Korsa:Yeah, and you know what though Kela say integrate. I say real. Nas real . So, I'm gonna say real that means that that being real to who you are look guys you know I can do with anyone even a real to themselves. You a skateboarder, you’re a skateboarder. I can deal with you correctly. If you're a rocker, you’re a rocker. If your graff artist. If you're a Roman, you’re a Roman. As long as your real I can deal with you. Be real to yourself.

KK:Yeah, on a level.

Korsa:That's all that matters. I can't deal with fakes. Can't deal with fakes.

KK:Yeah, nothing isn't that, there’s moral value in all of that.

Korsa:All of that. 

KK:Um let's take it back, let's go back to the source. Okay, right so a young Korsa… alright. Family together?

Korsa:huh?

KK:Come up for a fact did you come up from a  normal like family world?

Korsa:yeah. I grew up living with different members of family aunties yeah so I was

like I was… I’d say that.

KK:Creative?

Korsa: Hey, I suppose you have to be creative. You have to be creative in life.

KK:Is the creative value in your art more so towards the art or the vandalism? That's a question, I know you like that.

Korsa:You know listen... I hate people that say they don't like art. I like this but I don’t like this technique. And right that's their opinion but, I love it. I love it all. In fact, I love the vandalism. I love seeing places bombed out. I love seeing the stuff that got me into graff. The tagging. I've heard all the people say they didn't like graffiti. I loved graffiti. I loved everything about it, I love the tagging I love the… I love the… the mystery of it. I heard Teach in his interview talking about the… the myth and in the mystery of it. Yeah but I loved about it. That’s what I liked about graff.

KK:Bro, I think there is…I loved…like to me … meeting you now you're  like … the most you're a fucking soundest geezer and up until this point there was just this air of  Mr. mystique about Korsa, like wtf… like it was just it your attack on particularly …roadsides, brutal. Brutal. 

Korsa:well its Korsa. K o r s a. King Of Roadside Action. Remember that. Remember that. Know this.

KK:Dude, I didn’t know that. That’s sick. King of roadside action. C’mon.

Korsa:And also add king of rail side action, as well. Yeah just remember that.

KK:So we're talking in retrospect now but what we will definitely say is you… you …you had a thing about that, you had a… you had .. it became a notoriety.

Korsa:To be fair, yes that.. that in Birmingham them that's what that's what that's why I did the Roadside. So when I say oh I don't think I've seen anyone… doin’ the levels I have.. Like ATG doing rooftops in this and that and the other but, I was doing Street dubs, like literally that was my speciality, street dubs. Raw on the street. if you cut, if you came to Birmingham, any bus route basically, it'll be like a gallery the whole route… it would be the gallery. You ask anyone like from early nineties to like early 2000 if you catch certain buses… that's any bus or any train or any canal in Birmingham you would see that guy Korsa. 

KK:it's a geographical thing with Birmingham? like it's very you know from Spaghetti Junction outward there’s that is very… yeah traffic orientated.

Korsa:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s what it is. That’s what it is. Birmingham... like in London they have their underground route, in Birmingham, it was all about the busses. Okay in the eighties, I don't know, it's a notorious stay at Birmingham look the Birmingham busses were like notorious bus bombed to bits, to the point you couldn't see out the windows, ike you know he had New York trains. Ask Zomby he'll tell you straight cos he was actively part of the… the buses central bus yard. People used to do the bus yard. Purposely go to bus yard, came to the …the bus yards like people do train yards here but you've got like 15, 20 mans going to yards and painting like every single bus. 

KK:It was all about the buses. 

Korsa:All about the buses. 

KK:It was all about the roads. 

Korsa:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

KK:We’re you only person who was out there who was prolific?

Korsa:See the busses, the busses ,yeah it was when I was like, I keep that's what I was getting into graff right though this is when Rate. I've said in interviews before with… with other people like obviously this is when. he was over in the mix I was a little kid growing up seeing these older people around my area yeah tagging us and that's … what, not that's why do not know you saw the graffiti and I've just got memories like all subways and Spaghetti Junction when I was a kid just seeing graff but like that the busses were definitely it was before my time. I've never done and if I never did I've taught. I've done the yards since but not since there hasn't been local bus scene

 KK:Um who was who the writers that were around at a time when you were but you saying you were looking at outside the fringes of like graff on the bus. like who was around?

Korsa:All about the buses. It's a purse right Birmingham, it's a second biggest city. there was it yeah, here's I could name like 40 writers up straight up right now though that like, that kind of was like, they're not even into graff anymore, they gave up graff before I came in. I’m like second wave really, I'm second generation, I look at myself a second generation of writers in Birmingham ,probably 3^rd if you look at in some ways.  you've got love in your 1985-86  ?? UFA, all them old-school crews…then they had second generation which was at would all the classics like Zuki even though I would class him as the older generation. oh I came into, I got into graff about 88, 89 but look I didn't do really do anything about it noticeable till say 1990-91. 1991.

KK:That's what I remember seeing you come through like on the different magazines

and there yeah and then your closely affiliated, well you are DDS.  Your still close with the guys.

Korsa:Yeah for real. That the crews that I always respected when it took me

a while to get into that crew as well but I was rolling with certain menfrom DDS before that yeah.

KK:who are you rolling with at the time?

Korsa:Cosa. Cosa, Zonk. Mainly them two hard but Cosa, he's my boy. But okay like

that Zomby as well. Yeah look I a sort of knew Zomby, obviously he knew

people that I know. Remember bearing in mind I was a little kid. He was going out

with my best friend's ah, sister. Yeah I was little kid that back then but I remember being a kid and seeing them right  rate, rocking bomb.. Big dubs. see might be a smashed that. smash that. Was he's all about hitting bus stops around my area. And I was there and then he fucked off back to London and that's when he must have done his DDS, PFB era. You know, early 90s.

KK:Here you know, it must have been such a like absorption of like you

know having those guys go over, come over to your city. Nail it. and then have the

remnants after that.

Korsa:Yeah, I’ll tell ya. Alright. The first DDS writers that I remember just like for me and he's still went on favorite Shoe2.

KK:Shoes2 yeah.

Korsa:Yeah, like when he use to come around. I was coming around…and then around 92, 93 I was coming around, but I remember my 1992 Shoe2 and Noise came to Birmingham and like that it began impact on me and my graff and my style of graff and what I’m into. I might smash the life out of Birmingham completely. I don't know what that was doing. I don’t know if there was racking or whatever but they just seemed to be fucking everywhere.

KK:A consistent bang

Korsa:I’m talking the city centre. I’ve spoken to Shoe that since then. And I guess they it only came up for like a weekend. They absolutely, absolutely murdered the whole of Birmingham. I'm talking the inner city and around the city centre. And surrounding areas. I think they came up on a racking mission or something like that.

KK:but then just stayed.

Korsa:but to this day like shoe2, he's one of my favorite writers. I’ve got a lot of respect for that guy and what he’s done. His throw ups. His style. The mans a fucking legend.

KK:So these were these were definitely like people that you'd grown up like seeing.

Korsa:I grew up like obviously you got your Birmingham writers, your old school writers yeah, but look I ran the time when I really started going out bombing and it was around that time like 1992 when a really started like fucking taking my graff seriously, talking like it was on my mind 24 hours a day kind of thing. Shoe2 and Noise, like I said. They just.

KK:and noise as well yeah?

Korsa:Noise yeah, yeah but apparently, I think that not long after he moved to Merrygrove or something like that.  I don't know he was always a good wrote and Noise was as well..

KK:What's the addictive quality that you kind of you adopted what was it about it… it was so like oh I gotta do this, what?

Korsa:Well I'm into art anyway. I mean so I'm a creative kind of person you know so with the graff I don't know, it just gave me something to focus, to focus on I suppose. I just find it interesting.

KK:mmhmm.

Korsa:If I weren’t sketching, I was racking and if I wasn’t racking, I was painting. If I wasn’t painting I was on my way to go painting.

KK:The lifestyle, the lifestyle really dictates like how much you are creative doesn't it? That’s what’s mad.

Korsa:Yeah. Like I said I like art anyway but, I like art in its right context. It depends. I like art but, I like graffiti and I like my graffiti to be graffiti. I don't like these crossover things that about artists, graffiti. 

KK:Merging too much into other things.

Korsa:There's something you can look at an artistic level and appreciate it yeah but

like as far as graff is concerned, I'm a graff writer… I’m a graffiti writers’, writer. 

KK:Yeah you are. Yeah you are. Gimmie. I respect that. 100 percent.

Korsa:I'm not, I'm not, I'm not like yeah, you are one of these Artist writers.

KK:Your one of these you're the kind of person that recognize real like.

Korsa:Oh, I want my graffiti be like graffiti. Like splat. It’s been thrown on there. I like the rawness of it. I’m not like I'm not into all these people painting fucking murals and faces and this that and the other. and don't get me wrong I can look at it and say yeah that's good but if you go around Birmingham certain areas of Birmingham … deeper land. You got all these street artists yeah. and if it was down to street artists all you would ever have was these pics of  murals everywhere. And all we would have murals, what the fuck is the point in graffiti? Because you ain't got any archive and see murals. Where's the rawness in that? you don't develop a style drawing a murals. You know a mural is copying something you know develop anything, you’re not doing anything for graff.

KK:You know it's a cleanliness and you've got the time. Your time can be limitless when you're doing a mural or a stencil.

Korsa:Right so would people be into graff if they went around all day and just seen pictures of faces …of murals. And I’m talking murals like oh, I drew this photograph. Oh .you know pictures of …pictures of faces of pictures of The Incredible Hulk. you can see that anywhere what…what …what makes that what makes that so interesting?

KK:I totally feel that.

Korsa:I mean you can paint a mural on a canvas mental paint like it mean though so you could do, yes you so what I'm saying is Graff is about letters. Rocky letters. it's about characters, putting that little lean on them. Certain little styling in the letters.

your styling so letters... here if you can do straight letters this is a true testament to me… if you can write letters to me if you can do straight letters yeah and make them this have style and give them some sort of movement, simple.  Basic. there's

KK:Yeah then you're total in, It's funny in it cos that people use the… the… the legacy of graff and all of its criminality to make street art and then hook themselves onto it. street art becomes the cool thing to say, the safe thing to say, therefore socially acceptable.

Korsa:Socially acceptable.

KK:yeah, appropriation and then it's okay it's totally cool for you to be a graff writer, all of a sudden. It's like well nah… because you can't have that without the fact that that exists, and it existed before this shit.

Korsa:The same punks yeah, like they'll deny… they'll deny that you know. They'll use our heritage, they’ll use, our rawness, yeah even though they haven't got the rawness themselves. They’ve booked a ride off our realness, yeah. With their fake ass selves, yeah and then they'll use it yet but, they'll denounce it when it comes to the point, yeah. Where they think they can get a little money at it. “Nah, I’m not from that route, I”m an artist.” You know what? you need to get the fuck outta here brother. Move.

KK:Um, Uh here's an argument for you. Well I’m on the devil’s advocate. So you right so you have this.

Korsa:Don’t be no devils advocate to my face man.

KK:No, No, hold on.

Korsa:ten-foot. ten foot. Battling. No hard facts. Ten-foot. He will tell them off.  He will got to Birmingham or even we don't look at like hard facts man.

KK:Right let's so let's play devil’s advocate with okay, okay, all right so no hard facts no, hard facts, quote un quote but when …when… thank you when you have the commercial uh, wave of ..of street art and stenciling and blah blah blah that does allow the pendulum to swing.

Korsa:nah, nah, here’s what I’m saying, it's good to a certain degree is because it's sort of bridging the gap between what… what people didn't understand before it so much and he sort of like it softens the blow of graff and it makes people you wouldn't be into graff you usually sort of give you a chance of it like you know subconsciously before they whereas they would ring you up before.

KK:Can you give that a twist there? That bastards coming off.

Korsa:I've got loads of work off the back of these… these know they're making they've probably got work off the back of my history, this that and the other. But at the same time, yeah I'm using their I'm using their socially acceptable side of things to put myself out there a little bit more.

KK:kind of going a little bit more H.A.M , a little bit more extreme like how far can you take a piece like two against the grain of what is the status quo right?

Korsa:Yeah, there's a few of these people around Birmingham that write. I know like I think they must have like tagged for a year or something. Yeah. They are from certain areas of Birmingham and you know, they are pretty good at sketching. I've like I've looked on some of these people mmm I've never really done graff that probably don't a few tags here and there but they're really good at sketching and I've seen these same chumps like who do you think you are selling sketches and trying to sell canvases.

KK:Okay, okay. 

Korsa:Like you know you are you. How can you even sell canvases you little chump?

KK:Yeah yeah,I get it.

Korsa:If I see you selling canvases, again I'll snap it over my knee. I’ll throw it in the bin. With your fake ass Armani track suit your wear, as well. You know who you are yeah. You know who you are.

KK:I think with… it's been like it's a bit like guess who?  slowly narrowing down the person. 

Korsa:I know… I know who I'm talking about… there’s certain people doing canvas now. I've seen them advertised say oh yeah if you want any canvases yeah you know, DM me. Like what the fuck? What have you ever done? what have you ever done, really? I say you know you are. I know who they are as well yeah and like I'm talking to you right now directly yeah. This guy doing his sketches yeah, you're quite good at sketching but, you fucking coming on Instagram yeah but your whole page full of sketches. There decent sketches. Geez man get a grip, get a life and get out there get some spray cans and learn how to be real you little chump. I’m just being funny man. Take it back to normal now.

KK:You're fucking right though in terms of legacy. Getting there getting there a hundreds on when it comes to paying back for the things that like I've had enough people come on he like Teach is a great example of some by them you know I mean he's don't know how he's got the whole Maharishi thing popping.

Korsa:It’s next level.

KK:Its next level and that is work that that to me is like…. Uhhh.. poetic man.

Korsa:I've got a similar thing going on man, I've been going on right …  right in Footasylum now yeah there's a mate called hood rich yeah, he's a Birmingham clothes designer. Local lad. Big up Hoodrich.

KK:Hold tight, Hoodrich.

Korsa:A few years back he got in touch. He’s only a youth, but he's …he's an ambitious youth. Yeah and he got in touch with me and said look you’re a graffiti legend Birmingham yeah could you do me some design work… blah blah blah. 

KK:That’s sick.

Korsa:I met him off of Starcity. Took some design work through and like basically I don't know that what he said he wanted like four or five but basically I'll give him all the designs and I give him from cheap. I said listen right I can see where you're going or what you're doing there I could see I could see that this guy was ambitious and like you know from his, Insta from his WhatsApp. He was serious about whether what he was doing. Fast forward. I said to him was all I would say is yeah. when you make it keep because it was inevitable that this guy was gonna make it, yeah. Bring me through yeah, remember me and then fast forward three, four years I'm gonna pass Footasylum and I see Hoodrich in there whoa Mikey made it man.  Looked at his Instagram he's blowing on the spot next thing you know .. yeah no I see one of his posts on Instagram and I messaged him. Oh yo, I see you finally made it man. you know congratulations you know if you if you remember the conversation that had with yeah like I asked you to bring me through with ya, mate, when you made it.

KK:Hello.

Korsa:Hi!! You know what's I thought to do you know what he's probably got somebody else doing his Instagram, taking care of that now or whatever but the next day he messaged me back he's like yeah of course I remember. You need to come and speak to me and we can sort of talk about what we can collaborate on or do something and let's see what can do comes to the offices. You know that's good.

KK:That’s the way. That's the fucking way

Korsa:Yeah and things that just seems to be falling into line. I don't know what's gonna go on but let's hope.

KK:DM fucking legends here. Peak 1995 let's talk about that this was a for me this is worth definitive.

Korsa:95 yeah, my year for.

KK:That was a peachy year for you like you were going in.

Korsa:95 I was murcking.

KK:You was murcking. I remember seeing fucking Graphotism. What the fuck else was there…

Korsa:Graphotism.yes.

KK:I mean like you these what these were like portals.

Korsa:Like you've, I remember I'm a write from Birmingham as well yeah yeah always coming down to London, yeah .

KK:Yeah totally.

Korsa:The people who give rub bomb kings or whatever you know I might never have been a bomb king I've always been real but like.. that people didn't come to it from out of London. Like Drax was saying the other day like from intp the scene people didn't come from out of London.

KK:No they didn’t

Korsa:Where there’s me, I'll come down, yeah I was mad. I was smashing it think so we've Cosa, these people straightaway.

KK:Check out what is was… was it just a skill set  or just… just tenacity ? 

Korsa: If you're real, real, real I was just in the mix. I was a dirty little bastard. I was a little thief, I just blended in nicely. London lent itself to to me and I leant myself to London.

KK:You climatized well.

Korsa:It helped that sort of knew like Zomby as well like, I know and stuff like that ya.

KK:Hold tight Zomby. All day. 

Korsa:Hold tight. That’s my big brother right there. 

KK:Don. And hold tight Drax as well. Yeah I mean you kind of for me, its like if you and I said I you know I mean you're … you're from a certain area like I just it was you were part of that forward march on you know.

Korsa:yeah, yeah, yeah. Those were good, good years. Like what happened is right Wimbledon yeah used to be the writer’s bench. This was around these times like 95 hmm 96 ,97. Wimbledon was the writer’s bench. The district line, underground we used to run along trains between Clapham Junction London Bridge , Waterloo We would be running on the overground, underground. racking, stealing. We’d all meet up at Wimbledon. We are talking 15… 16 ..20 lads landing on shops

KK:How old were you lads? You was young? You must have been young. 

Korsa:I was about 18, 19 I think, Cosa was about 16 yeah. I’m a couple years older than him. Them times were just the best times. I’ll be honest with you, yeah they were the best, best times. It was just like free everything. You know people by paint these days. Everything was free from travel to trainers to even going back to Birmingham. I would come down to and I would tell my Mum, I’m going to London for a week.

KK:It takes a lot of mojo to go from fucking London to Birmingham on your ones for free.

Korsa:Well initially I linked up with these, right called a fleet called DO8 and Meth not Meth from South London. Meth from ?. Yeah, his name was knees name used accordingly yeah good guy yeah. And basically, I used to hook up with them had a little flat in London Bridge but, they were into graff, but they weren't as on it as all I was. And I used to come out I might know if I'm do thing myself. Like I remember doing like…. doing things like Blackfriars. Blacksfrairs tracks I'm on over there eventually done the... the bridge with Zonk and tat as well .

KK:Wait so hold on, you doing missions on your own as well. You've got to know..

Korsa:That’s how I knew Char. Through..?  I knew uh I knew him through ? yeah

and then eventually he's the one that hooked me up with Cos. because from the damn I met Cos it was all over.  It was all over. And then he became my good friend for life. Wow and that's really well not just graff. He's a good friend of mine.

KK:Good peoples. 

Korsa:Good peoples. Millions of people. Real people. 

KK:Yeah but this is the thing is like you would never I mean let's look at it like the legacy alone you know I mean like what came after that? I mean there's no question whether it's Birmingham 

Korsa:yeah…yeah it was a million years from them times. I just went up and down I think it was like 96 I was Cosa got put into DDS  and everything. It was on his birthday. And then Zonk and that. These times Cos and like Zonk are like. Like Zonk next level. These kids still, next level. I rate them so much. 

KK:Next level in terms of technicality or endurance?

Korsa: nah, he just had that edge. somewhat so you look a lot these writers they haven't got that natural flow that edge. Zonk had it.  Cosa He’s got his own shit going on. He’s always got his own shit going on but he's unique.

KK:It's funny how you get into like the characters alright of I mean we're getting like the character of you now and we've had all these different people on the podcast but what's really interesting is looking at the character and then looking at the graff it totally makes sense you know, what I mean. It's like Cos can only be Cos and his paint reflects that.

Korsa:yeah definitely.

KK:and Zonk. it's true its true its true and I love that's why.

Korsa:That’s why, right..Cos is his own way. I also I almost looked at some of these fills and things like I don't think he's done it by accident like you know like he can't do that you don't do that you defy his rules of graff but it works for him, yeah. You and even if he doesn’t work on the odd occasion yeah cos he's a little sick oh yeah but like this geezer yeah he's like he's done what Tux done yeah and more.

KK:that’s so fucking true.

Korsa:and more I mean 

KK:yeah.

Korsa:because Cosa that he will have his throw up yeah. Once he's perfected that throw up but he's got look and running it for a year. and he gets a new thing yeah and that becomes imprinted on your head. Once again sees new throw here he's fucking out there. When I first saw Cosa, COSA in curly style. I remember it Birmingham, London bridge, Waterloo. He used to do all the tracks up there. and along the tracks were like Choke and they're back in the day people that Reach, Iron yeah he had a few things up there yeah but like Cosa I had reaches up there this is not fucking like wow. Nowhere to hide.

KK:So, fucking true. And I’ve not ever thought about it and now that your talking I’m thinking about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the..the…the delivery. 

Korsa:If you remember, for years the trackside ups there, the only a few writers that had reach up there was Choke and he had sick reaches up there. I was always thought he was good tag with his big curly pieces yeah. And Cosa water side tracks yea because of ?. On a different level up there. All on the …metal.. bridges and everything. Nowhere to hide up there. And these were the times when I first met him. And I remember at that same time coming down to London. Jumping off at Easton. getting on the northern line. Northern line pulling in. BBQ black Zonk across. Right in the front yeah. Red upside. Plastic coat. Cosa, stainers. All down the side. Fucking mercked it these kids, yeah. You’ve got to. You’ve got to understand yeah. Mercking off trains yards. There’s no one out there doing what these people do.  These characters have been there. There’s no one out there. There’s no youngsters coming up. Like that… well there has been a few since, yeah.

KK:why you reckon. Why you reckon that is, K? what’s your theory on that?

Korsa:its because… it’s because graff has lost its edge. Graff has lost its mystery.

KK:is it is it is it a social for is it the fact that it's really hard to I mean like Teach was citing in like 15 dubz, night. Like back in the day.

Korsa: yeah, I can rate like 15 dubs a night. 

KK:Back in the day, that’s crazy.

Korsa:I did used to like do, two three or night yeah like you know I was basically in

Birmingham was doing like me and Zuki we'd go out yeah and we do like we would

have the similes chromes for all car paint and stuff like that. All home based plastic coats or spectra and we'd use exact fill ins, One can of paint was getting 3 dubs. But as soon as we get three we just fill, more, more, more, more. We do track sides. It was beautiful times.People who haven't lived through that or witnessed it yeah don't realize. The people that are into graff now yet they into graff for different reasons yeah where was the era I got into graff and the reasons I got into graff yeah , It was a whole different kind of buzz. It was a whole different vibe. I remember seeing Zuki tags. Zuki tags thanks on the number 8 bus route. The inner circle Bus route. week when I was a kid I was thinking I could ever meet this guy. Zuki man. And he had this throw ups. And tags around and I’m thinking wow. Who is that guy? How am I ever gonna meet him?  You would almost detective work on these things.  It was like that was a part of the buzz you know you had to put hours in. You had to literally put physical hours in to be into graff.  I mean it wasn't just sitting and looking on Instagram and painting the board again and then painting another day. And painting that board up over there. It was it was physically demanding as in even to do you have to have the tools to do your graff. You spend the day out racking. You know racking paint. People don’t rack paint no more. It was.. if you paint. …I would never write.

KK:I would never I was trying to work this out actually were talking about it on the way there in to have a graff wrtiers life back in a day,right. So explain to me explain to me the processes. here's how I’m envisioning it. Wake up. Rack. Paint. 

Korsa:Alright, I'm gonna go through the scenario but I go through like a typical couple of days.

KK:yeah. Day in the life. A Day in the life.

Koras:Let's start the night before. yeah right we've got our ? yeah from whatever happened in…in the daytime. We're jumping on the bus back to Croydon yeah, yeah, we go back to Croydon cos my boy Cosa, he was sorta out them ways.  I don't know if I can say that but it doesn’t matter cause everything moved on.

KK:Lifes moved on.

Korsa:It was like twenty years ago.

KK:A long long time ago.

Korsa:but we would sit in the house. 

KK:Everything is in retrospect.

Korsa:Watch Friday. Constantly watch Friday.  puff, puff give.  You fucking the rotation. We used to watch that constantly yeah and then we'll get up in the morning have a shower, smoke. Watch Friday what's Friday again or watch…uhhhhhh deep cover. 

KK:oooh cold.

Korsa:We used to watch that all the time. Me and Cosa. We would get dressed. Go out. Well we would fill up our pens up first before we do anything. Fill our pens up with pantone or fibeans. We fill it up. Jump on the bus. Bomb the bus. Get to Croydon. Raise some beer. Rack a few booze. Raise clothes and then the whole day would be over. Sometimes we would sometimes got north. Certain mans up north like Zonk. But if we go up north and north would spend the day up north mm-hmm or we're going to meet me rock or bombs? yeah and yeah those were good days.  ? junction from. Bogart. Bogarting is running out. 

KK:I was gonna say what’s bogarting? 

Korsa:ah, Houghton McDonald's I bogarted.

KK:What’s bogarting.

Korsa:15 chickenburger yeah.

KK:Whats that?

Korsa:Bogarting is when you.. like New York term for when you run out from the shop. 

KK:okay 

Korsa: but back in the day. I was feeling McDonalds. Once I bought the food yeah. Can I.. Can I get a hot chocolate as well please? And they would go yeah. Turn around. Pick up the bag. Bam I’m gone.  15 chicken burgers record from Houghton.

KK:15!!!

Korsa:From Houghton. 

KK:Hold tight. 

Korsa:and I know Zomby would remember this. everyone remembers me as a mad crazy guy. I bogarted Brixton 7-Eleven yeah, for two bottles of…of Jack Daniels and 40 Benson.

KK:Jesus Christ.

Korsa:And you know the chase I got off their fucking ….? That was working there yeah. Oh my days, the chase I got from them, Shit. and just before I crossed Brixton  the high street . It was all … skipping bricks, it was pissing down rain that day. I remember this. Plug will remember thus yeah. There use to be a writer called Buddah.  That use to be with Plug and Touch was there. I remember Touch started to roll.

KK:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Korsa:it was Touch and Plug. They used to come to Wimbledon but they used to chill that like a ..is it white city ? or we've a lot of writers like blink tells a whole lot of crew writers from their lot, Chang and people are that all that little gang go and touch used to write with all them lot at but then they started coming obviously down south with us. And then yeah, yeah. 

KK:Fuuuuck.

Korsa:You know them days on, Fume was absolutely fucking merking. Just merking London.

KK:He's always been he's always been king …king of like…yeah, man.

Korsa:My Muslim brother, bless you know.

KK:Hold tight Plug. You know that, you know that. I mean, again these are in retrospect. As I like to confirm again, cos Like you said…You don’t get at that level of dedication.

Korsa:Graff can’t be half as exciting for these new writers as it was for me. It was an invention man. 

KK:I would definitely… there is definitely people that are still out there doing it like do you know that.

Korsa:Yeah, no there doing it like this but not to extent like it was back in the day.

KK:Not the same.

Korsa:There is people out there racking and doing their thing yeah, but as far as like graff related, like racking paint and things like that yeah. And like if weren't just a matter of like racking paint yeah, you have to get like you know a lot of pieces back in the day like depending what you had in that day you know like some pieces will be funny colors you know, or you had to decide like you couldn't just decide, ah, I'm gonna put a white on this piece. Like you can these days you can decide any color for an outline these days back in them days you had to content with what paint would cover….What available… about what’s available and how much of that that did you have. 

KK:yeah, yeah.

Korsa:is that is ….is the paint thick enough in that color to do an outline.

KK:Like sometimes you have a pink and its really translucent.

Korsa:Pinks were really hard to get back in the day.

KK:yeah Zomb said, Zomb said that. Yes, so essentially like there's some flaws and of what's going on now, but the dedication of lifestyle isn't there?

Korsa:Yeah it still… It is  a little romans out there. 

KK:do you think it’s fortunate. it's quite fortunate like that as the generations move on

with graff fortunately, there is that kind of pocket where you can go and buy paint so you're not feeling like you know in your 50s and 60s like you've gotta go rack. 

Korsa:I don’t …I’ve … I bought paint myself in recent years yeah but look I

don't spend my hard-earned money on paint. okay I'll probably buy that three cans

four cans here and there. I still rack paint a little, I still mix it up. but a lot of my paint comes from commissions. Like if I do a graffiti job all over… all don't paint there's no way that I'm spending a lot of money on paint that could be spent on other things.

KK:I know you’re a massive music head and we share a very very similar door opening of like rap music massive into your life.

Korsa:You know you if you look up my early pieces yeah, I like the mad Wu Tang W because massively inspired by Wu Tang. On the way down here I was busting like you know 36 Chambers and Mystery of Chestboxin’.  Mmm, Redman. Gravediggaz.

KK:Redman. Gravediggaz. 

Korsa:Redman. Mobb Deep. 

KK:yeah. Mobb Deep man.

Korsa:O.C. yeah fuck. O.C.

KK:Jesus OC.

Korsa:He was alright, he was alright. 

KK:Time’s up was a tune.

Korsa:He had the..you know, all the west coast.

KK:Smif-N-Wessun, the whole yeah - thing that whole thing the whole area at that time was just.

Korsa: I think the graff scene, the hip-hop scene is sort of reflective of

the way the graff scenes gone. Like all these new little half-hearted little rappers, yeah? are representation… are almost in line with these with these new breed of graffiti artists.

KK:Socially yeah. I get you, I get you

Korsa:They are not of the same calibre, of these older… You don’t get people like Eric Sermon or like Redman Listen, you don’t get the rawness. They don’t have the rawness anymore. They are trying to pirate off of what happened years ago… where as we were there.

KK:There’s something that I think it was, um…Ace Skills said..no, not ace skills, um what was his name. I forget his name.. I’ve forgotten who it was.. Skills… that’s his name Skills He said back in them times actually, let’s forward it a little bit … 2006,  yeah baby… 2009. The 50 cents of the world. They were the drug dealers Now the kids are the...

Korsa: yeah, these days they’ve got the end products, but they haven’t paid their dues, to salute their certified…their certification.

KK:Back then as well, Fat Joe was a real advocate of like, graff and I use to love that.

Korsa:yeah, yeah, man Fat Joe. TATS CRU and stuff

KK:yeah yeah TATS, you know…?? And ? and there was Cope.

Korsa:Artifacts.

KK:Of course. Of course. How important is graff in the hip hop culture for you?

Korsa:Definitely it is a big thing. Graff.

KK:I couldn’t agree more. 

Korsa:Graff and hip hop. Any era of graff I can remember there is a hip hop tune that goes along with that tune. Even around ’98. ’99. I know it sounds silly my trips to London and Brixton and Brixton market, I just remember Lauryn Hill Doo Wop being on the radio everywhere. Yeaaah…. Guys you know better watch out. I just remember That being the theme tune of that era for me. It was on the radio.

KK:I love it when that shit happens. I love that.

Korsa:Everytime, I hear that tune it just takes me back to people trying to do travel to Brixton. Tube stations. It’s just that mad time.

KK:Here’s the thing Drum ‘n’ Bass definitely leans towards graff by default obviously Goldie, fucking God, but, a lot of other genres, outside of that and hip hop, they … I think, I think graff moves with it.

Korsa:Yeah. 

KK:with the times. Nothing anchors it more than those two genres. For the UK especially.

Korsa:  Definitely. 100 percent. 100 percent. You’ll find that most graffers, uh, if you go to any rave, you’ll find it in places....in the toilets or graffers are into it. It’s all stuff.

KK:You’re right. You’re right. Also like with…yeah give it a twist …? yeah I’ll have some Chocolate buttons…I dunno why it’s doing that. Why is it fucking with me today? Do you see how low its going? Its so dumb. I dunno what it is…there you go…you fixed it!!

Korsa:mmmm, there you go.

KK:Yeeeah. Wicked. We have a shared sweet tooth. Yeah man that was an era. I could certainly say it encapsulated everybody into particular songs. The association with the elements. Quote unquote, that certainly as a beatboxer wouldn’t be like…

Korsa:do you remember Rahzel.

KK:yeah of course.

Korsa:Have you heard Chase from Birmingham. 

KK:Chase is the man. Madflow. Them two together. Unstoppable. ?? Chase and Madflow for those who don’t know about Chase and Madflow in beatboxing. sleep on. They killing it. Madflow is still doing his thing, yeah. But Birmingham has always had this hub of hardcore. Who was that others um there was a …use to be in hip hop connection all the time. UK rappers. 

Korsa:M.S.I. & Asylum

KK:M.S.I. & Fucking Asylum man. C’mon they still doing stuff.

Korsa:Ranx, Hectic. Fucking what was it…? I still see ranks regular man. Hectic I dunno what he’s doing. 

KK:DJ roc1 as well.

Korsa:Birmingham had a wicked scene yeah.

KK:still do. I don’t get for second that there. 

Korsa:Birmingham…is like Raw. Like with all the grime and trap music and everything. There’s a lot of artists out there. From Birmingham. 

KK:Grime is doing alright out there as well.

Korsa:I think grime has been given… like when M.S.I. & Asylum were coming through . I remember them making it on Westwood. 

KK:that’s big. I remember they use to come to my shows as well. I use to be like dumbfounded. I was like whhhhat?

Korsa:There was like a gang of them. 

KK:They would just roll in and you just know they were there. It was just like an energy. 

Korsa:Like in London there was obviously like Skinnyman and them kind of people who held keys to you know, making it in the British hip hop scene. As far as, that was what I’ve heard from certain people. Like, you sorta stuck with them. You know you can get so far and then the buck stops there with them. That’s what I heard.

KK:  I would argue that’s the case with DDS as well at the time. 

Korsa:yeah, yeah, yeah.

KK:With DDS, they were the lynchpin of like, modern graff, in the streets.

Korsa:DDS is legendary. There is a lot people. I heard Teach saying, There is people now who put it on but are not in it. Like, I know, who put me in.

KK:who put you in it? 

Korsa:Zomby put me in it.

KK:Zomb put you in it. That’s fucking cold. You don’t get more higher than that do you?

Korsa:Not me anyway. I remember like Zomby. I remember that being like that’s the crew that I still hold with pride.

KK:yeah yeah.

Korsa:and even though I’ve seen, I’ve seen certain people put it up …like you’re not good enough for that crew man. Nah, I shouldn’t say that really man. Cause like everyone… like NHS right.? You’ve got NHS London. This is where NHS started. But NHS is Birmingham. I would say personally, the NHS in Birminhgam is of a higher calibre. And the writers that are in it yeah, it is… its not as big as it down in London. But its smaller collection of, I’d say, no offence to anybody but, a lot of better writers.

KK:Its more concentrated. So, there’s like an intense competitiveness. 

Korsa:yeah, but it’s still the same crew. And I put a few people down like …I put people in NHS on my own. But I don’t just put anyone in it, where as It seems down here. It seems like it’s been watered down a bit. Like it seems certain writers have been put up and I think.

KK:yeah… I don’t know where I mean it derives from the fact of abundance. Like, like with Birmingham as you say. It’s a smaller city so it’s a concentrated area. A smaller amount of people. So therefore, you can filter the best of the best. Do you think that’s mad?

Korsa:NHS is Birmingham is not the best of the best yeah but it’s an active.

KK:No, I don’t mean Birmingham as a whole… its just..

Korsa:Yeah, yeah, yeah, the pool of writers in London is a lot bigger you know. As far if someone is… its like it is a crew. It’s not like, NHS yeah. It’s not just people in Birmingham as well, even despite of what I might have just said.  They…they not the best writers.  They are actually my friends yeah. Do you know what I mean? That’s a crew. 

KK:So maybe there is that differentiation that needs to be made like talent over quality time. Maybe there is an argument there.

Korsa:Sometimes its plays that way. Yeah you know you’re not the best graff writer in the world but, you’re my friend and you’re a real geezer.

KK:it’s like being the drummers. You’re in the band. You’re not the best drummer. But your good to be around and I know you’ll carry shit and can play.

Korsa:yeah, yeah that’s it. And there’s other people that are in it and there rough and common and they are just out there doing in.

KK:and yeah and I guess that’s what creates that average of like..uhhh profile. 

Korsa:???

KK:Yeah, sweet tooth’s in the house umm what, who are you rating at the moment? 

Korsa:like writers?

KK:yeah.

Korsa:I’ll tell you what. The person that I rate the most. There’s two.

KK:Go on.

Korsa:Peng and Mena from Birmingham. Peng and Mega are fucking killing it. just letting you know. Pengmengs. Just know. They’ll know that joke. Peng, Meng.

KK:boom! Hold tight. Internationally?

Korsa:uhh Cosa. Listen, my idols are still the same. Yeah, they don’t change.  They don’t change, yeah. I’ve got my favorite writers. Some of my favourite New York writers. Yeah, listen can I just big up par1, TDS as well? Fellow TDS member. Death squad. UK.

KK:Hold tight. I met him actually man. He’s a sound dude man.

Korsa:Yeah, he’s a cool dude man, he’s a fucking legend. I was put in that crew as well man. Big thing for me.

KK:damn.

Korsa:That’s one of the original New York train crews. I mean they must have seen something in me or the fact that I’m just fucking awesome at graff. Birmingham should pay me for all the time. Its just one of them things.

KK:What keeps your …what keeps your passion? Your passion for graff?

Korsa:To be big headed about it. Man, when I look at a wall and I’m not gonna lie to ya. I’ve done a painting today and I look at the wall yeah, and I said to my boy cos, he was painting with me. We fucking rocked this wall today. And I know it and that’s what I love about graff yeah. It gives you that boost. I can look at what we’ve done today and its sick.

KK:Fucking rights it is Bro. C’mon.

Korsa:Is there any way you can get a picture of it to show?

KK:Yeah yeah.. I’m putting it up now. Bang.

Korsa:Tell me. Tell me, who knows, who knows,who knows. Send that to my friends and foes, and I suppose.

KK:So yeah. Fucking hell. 

Korsa:As well. You know you my brother from a different mother yeah. Love ya. We gonna drop something later on you gonna me my brother cuts as well. He’s another …

KK:So this is like you are like on a fucking marathon run here. 

Korsa:I brought him in. He’s a cool kid.

KK:Hold tight crutch. Hold tight.

Korsa:If you don’t know about cuts and Europe. Mans out in Europe yeah.one of those panels bruv. I don’t hang around fucking idiots yeah. I hang around real writers. 

KK:any last words you’d like to say.

Korsa:Hold tight mega. Hold tight Mega and all the mans, NHS. Hold tight OCA. Hold tight Plank. Hold tight page my boy. Hold tight Teach. Hold tight Rake. Hold tight all of DDS, Rate, Zomby you know who you are. Hold tight Cosa. Hold tight every single writer that’s ever known me or written with me who knows how fucking bad I am. I know how bad you are too, yeah because you wouldn’t be written with me otherways, yeah. Hold tight Killa Kela. Boom. Love all that. Love all that.

KK:Listen the world is full with these characters and your only getting them here. Live and direct. Killa kela podcast good luck everybody. Hold tight man. The mighty. if your sitting down, stand up. If you got a pair wave them in the air. For the man KORSA. Inside the mother fucker. Mighty, mighty. Hold tight. hold tight. 

Korsa:Love, love. love, love.

KK:Anytime. Tea is always in the pot. Hold tight alright. Killa kela podcast. Hold tight Killa kela podcast. Subscribe. Do not sleep. You know how we are doing it. Yeah that double subscription business. Top to the bottom.You make sure you go and check us out, your’ favourite podcast. PEACE. WHOO! I repeat do not sleep on my repeat.