RYCA brings a new face to the art world!

 RYCA ARTIST
(DESIGNER/POP CULTURE ARTIST/ TOY CREATOR) 
A lot has happened in the first 20 days of this Podcast in 2020.. much of which will mostly play out in the next 3 months. Things sometimes take more time, and dropping this particular episode of the podcast is no exception. RYCA’s Podcast needed the space to be released; aside from his sickk art and crazy toy builds and creative products, he’s also an bonafide behind the scenes guy, who has been involved in the culture for a minute. He’s put in work privately, nationally and  internationally for people/artists, integrating art with music and helping some of your favourite artists, writers and musicians in creative collaborations. You’ve met a lot of music and street culture on here, now meet one of the creatives working in the front and back, making our sene ever more vibrant. This is RYCA’s Podcast.

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KILLA KELA
 RYCA ARTIST  
(DESIGNER/POP CULTURE ARTIST/ TOY CREATOR) 
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

KILLA KELA: Big shout out to Graffiti Kings, Ladies and gentlemen this is the Killa Kela podcast. Welcome to the Kela dome. Subscribe, follow on all the podcast platforms do not sleep I repeat do not sleep on it alright. Central London or central is you need to be and I've got a friend of mine is passed through extremely talented geezer and yeah if you haven't come across his stuff online then you clearly ain't been looking on the right in the right places. He's creative designer cast to creator, a molder, sculptor toys art exhibitions and more its Ryca. how are ya?
RYCA:  I'm good man thanks for having me.
KK: Is that a good description, yeah?
R: it made me sound like you need to check me out and check a trade or something.is he a cowboy builder or is a  a master of all trades or something, I dunno.
KK: Your still in the same, this is the thing is a real brand emphasis and I think, I think that's, that's what's really important when it comes to having all these different things that you do right.
R: yeah, I mean that thing of being referred to as a brand. I… it's not something I set out to do. Still find it a bit strange that you are you're sort of branded and I, I'm so guilty of it because I branded myself so yeah can't really moan about the burn.
KK: Yeah, yeah. ouch that hurt me sorry me.
R: its like, ah fuck, why is that there?
KK: Yeah, yeah oh shit, it’s me.
R: I guess yeah, I mean that was you know the, the Ryca brand if we're gonna call it that. That was um that was accidentally come you know that that is older than my art persona.
KK: really?
R: It comes from music.
KK: yeah
R: It comes from failure. It’s born in failure.
KK: Elaborate. I've got feeling you were probably a starving artist at one point making productions or something.
R: I’m definitely, not starving anymore.
KK: No, not you’re not, you ballin baby. But there was I think with every kind of like you say fail there's like that's that incentivizes you to do better right.
R: Yeah, I mean a brief history of the, the Ryca name comes from. I was, I heard a story about how MC Creed from garage got his name and his name's Chris Reed so I just was like us alright, RY, Ryan CA Callanan I'll just make RYCA. It sounds cooler than this long-winded Irish name.
KK: what's your Irish name
R: Callanan.
KK: Callanan. Wow.
R: Yeah, it's a weird spelling there's no H's or G’s and it's all from like the West of Ireland.
KK: I've seen your kind of Irish Surnames, I know exactly.
R: oh, my family history is apparently we're notorious cow thieves.
KK: Really, wow.
R: yeah, we've always been there we've always been involved in beef and.
KK: OH! That’s cold. The commercial right there Kels. Alright so remember the chop right there. love it. So, so in, so in essence it's like you're your because I'm trying to think now like have you done any pieces because I'm a big fan. Have you done any pieces that does involve association to your surname you. Probably ain't have you know cow related beef related things.
R: No because it's - it's just you know the way art works and the way the Internet is. Shit needs to be immediate. Yeah you know no, no one's, no one wants unless you're a conceptual artist, which the more I'm involved in art, the longer I'm in it. the more I have conceptual ideas that don't feel like well like I'm straying from the path that I was interested in but and the more I appreciate conceptual art which is what I fucking detested at the beginning. And what I don't I still don't like most conceptual art.
KK: I get ya. I get ya.
R: Oh yeah, I don't want to go into a gallery and feel like I'm the dumbest one in the room.
KK: That's right, that's right. 
R: I want, I want, I want that Banksy instantaneous joke. I get it. I'm satisfied, everything's fine, funny and I can I can go about my day.
KK: It is insane bro. yeah. Just reversing back a little bit were you ever doingmusic did you ever do?
R: I was um I've got big vinyl collection. Tried to be a DJ. I could mix but I wasn't great so it was more hobby. I played a few club nights that my friends put on in, East London and was pretty shit I was pretty bad. I used to do drum n bass emceeing as a joke but was like freestyle and you quickly realized that you know you're never gonna be fucking MC Det. Yeah and that was the guy I was like you know, not, not, not, He's just that thing of like he's got the hooks. He's had the same hooks and he's, he's a slow evolving creature but, he's the fucking for me he's like the hype of Drum N’ bass. He was like and go deck you know that would just know smash the place to bits.
KK: I had Skib, around here.
R: That the whole thing.
KK: I had him and Harry here, that's just fire like and you know what is the interesting thing about these guys. It’s not only do they derive their influences from other places which you would never ever expect like skips like a fully accomplished like pianist.
R: No way
KK: For real he plays piano.
R: oh fuck.
KK: He should I mean, this is the thing, he's taken the creative model of …this is gonna sound really harsh but it's not. I think with, with popular culture the bar does lower just by now by default because things just get easier, you know I mean. it's like with technology with creative output people's attention spans. It just gets easier to create the more the later down the line. You get in pop culture, so I know what I'm getting at is his creative bar to do drum n bass was lower than the creative expectation of playing a piano.
R: Yeah that makes total sense.
KK: Yeah this if you, yeah if you can, I respect anyone who can play an instrument because I can't and I don't have the attention span to learn it.  I've tried to I try to learn drums I can’t do it. Like I guess I don't know, if I'm, I'm probably on the, I think everyone's on like an ADHD spectrum at somewhere.
KK: so true.
R: But it's funny, because I've listened to a few of the more arty guests you've had on yeah and even the SHOK-1. I was like he was saying how he has to focus on one thing. I'm the opposite, if I try and do one thing, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna have to show up shop.
KK: really yeah.
R: I have to be like I'm working on always and it was.
KK: a load of things at once.
R: Lke, millions of things, like I have I've got like stuff that, I started four years ago that I've not finished but they're, they progressing. So, there's like I see it as like a multi animal Noah's Ark race so this snails racing against you know cheetahs. So some of these things they go bang. Okay there's an idea and that goes from boom done and it's out because it. I don't know, it just had more, I don't know. I don't know what that is and then some of these things they just like there slow burners and they're coming through and some of them some of them crash and burn which is it's good. I mean like you know self self editing I guess that's that's like the toughest thing because
KK: What is that is, that term for something, self-editing,
R: Yeah like, like my output is it's the same as a musician. You, you, you could make a track and listen to it, back a few times, you know. I'm just gonna go, I finished this bang, there it is on yeah for everyone to listen to critique you've got to go wait a minute. I gotta get out of my zone it's not even third-person, you're
in a fourth person imaginary audience view of how and then and then there's also like the fifth perspective
which is longevity how does this stand up over time.
KK: that's cold. this is deep so, okay yeah because here's the thing with podcasting and a lot in terms of music, I've kind of evaluated like, how this like, you say there's got to be the removal of your creative self and the preciousness of you owning that thing. You've got to give it to the people they, then own it. they then create their perception of you and therefore it sticks. The deviation of you outside of what they perceive you as, it's like when you start doing something whether it be the smiley face, the biggie, um look you've just got to be able to not lead people into their own interpretation of you ,you've got to make a stand out point of this is what I am do you know what I mean.
R: yes.
KK: it could go down that road where you're just, you're not in control of that see.
R: I'm not obsessed with that so much, I'm like yeah, I like I do, I do some, some pieces, I'm like no there's a clear like agenda and a message and my point is here, this is the vehicle, that I'm sending out and but then some stuff is more like ambiguous than that and that's fine.
KK: And your audience can kind of grasp that.
R: I don't know.
KK: do you think it's the medium that you work on.
R: I think because I work in ….so I just see myself as a sort of…. it's either, you're either a chef. Like the metaphor is I'm a chef or I'm a DJ or I'm a bit of both. and you know like the best DJs are splicing everything you can buy together and make something new but they blow your mind because you're just like I've never heard it presented that way.
KK: Oh, that’s sick I like that analogy.
R: and a chefs the same. I can go and buy some fucking carrots and couscous but I can't throw it together like a Michelin star chef could, so it's the same shit. So all them ingredients are there like that's what for me but this is.
KK: That’s pop culture. This is sick
R: Yeah, ingredients are all ready there. everybody's I'm I guess I just got people come to the kitchen.
KK: that's amazing um because it is because when I think about your stuff and you guys by the way you have to jump in, give them the Instagram affair.
R:  so my Instagram is @ryca _artist yeah, that's probably like the most up to date because I don't, I don't know if I'm the only one guilty of it but I don't update my website anymore but my website which is www.  that’s old school. 
KK: yeah.
R: so its ryca.net or my real Irish long name ryancallanan.com they both take you to the same website and this is kind of yeah, you'll see.
KK: That fuck you up man
R: The websites disjointed so both lead you to the same rabbit hole but there's as, there's two sides to the website a black and a white side and they have slightlydifferent works but some of it crossover because I'm, I call itself collaborating it's quite weird but because I've got two personas in my art now I'm trying to make distinctions between them but I fail almost all the time.
KK: why.
R: because I just forget and like I make stuff or I try and make stuff under one like under my real name. Coin in a sort of art genre phrase that I've been making certain works with which are called pop-torian, which is a Victorian aesthetic.
KK: yeah, I can see that.
R: so, a lot of my glass piece is my you know the more beautifully made stuff, that's high-end you know, that is… is more Ryan.
KK: Gotcha.
R: and then got you the more pure, pop culture you know movie reference stuff is Ryca so that this, this is a Ryca.
KK: Yeah for those of you that ain't watching there's a Buddha Biggie, Biggie Smalls Buddha that's on the table just to go on YouTube check it out.
R: it's called Buddha smalls.
KK: Buddha smalls, get the fuck outta here. um your pop culture it does go across the board and one thing I like you mentioned about the DJ sampling culture you, you are essentially taking samples of things then regurgitate you know ryca-fying them back out there. I do love that and it's an interesting medium even this you know that kind of put Buddah Smalls, you know it's just such an interesting perspective. It's like how did you come up, but how'd you come up with these things?
R:  well a lot of it is being a fan of like, I don't know if I'm second or third generation like Street urban artist or whatever that is. I don't, I don't consider myself any of those.
KK: third wave, I think its third.
R: Yeah so um I almost in a sense the Biggie Smalls wave of hip hop. you know like.
KK: MTV based generation.
R: yeah, he's not second gen is he? like is he second gen or is he third?
KK: it’s complicated cos his late ninties innit? but then that was a different wave but your but you grew up through that so technically you would be the third wave.
R: yeah yeah.
KK: I guess.
R: I guess, yeah because I wasn't actively making work in the second wave.
KK: no.
R: yeah.
KK: you was just taking it all in like a sponge.
R: but the point all of this was I like to when I get into stuff. The reason I have 5,000 vinyl records is because I'm fanatical. I have you know a toy collection just ridiculous because I, I get into stuff and I'm just one of those people that like if I'm into something. I know stuff about it. I, I just sort of absorbed the canon of Star Wars. Like I know a lot of shit about Star Wars that no one ever needs to know and I don't need to know it. And I can't, you can't, there's no there's no dumping in your brain to go and dump the files off. are you sure you want tO empty it? Yeah, I’m fucking sure. It’s there and it's quite funny. Yeah and it's sort of, I learnt to embrace that and use that sort of department but mix it with comedy. So I always thought like Banksy being the genius of inventing a formula it's almost like a really simple like you know algebra equation.
KK: yeah, yeah, yeah.
R: like pop culture add humor equals And like most, most successful things That I like are just are that simple yeah so I was like.
KK: with a hint of irony in a bit of, kind of.
R: yeah it could be some of them are more complex like there's you know.
KK: but, the comedy could be irony .
R: yeah, it’s true.
KK: so, it's like politics is irony as well.
R: yeah so that's what I was saying like it's just like A plus B equals X. And some, sometimes they're, I don't know, I just think he's like the master of that little quick easy piece of algebra.
KK: yeah and you know what, what I love about it the most is the market is small but he maxed it out to the point that it became on you know so no like you couldn't not notice it. It's just bang, its like I got a lot of time for the geezer. I think you know I have all different walks of graff life and street culture, you know. Street art come through and you know it's that Marmite effect. Like no matter what, no matter what your opinion is of him he comes up in conversation very frequently. I think there's a lot to be said about like his contribution in a long term it will be looked, looked at as wow like there.
R: a change in the conversation.
KK: There is. yes, change in the conversation. there's a leniency.
R: yeah.
KK: I don't, I'm not saying that's entirely Banksy. I think there's a
there's a filter of people that are going into it to the world now into the industry of you know, whatever with its BTP. I'm not too sure about that but people that just accept that they grew up on graff.
R:  yeah, I mean like and sort of when you, when you get into even the level, I'm out I don't know what level that is, it's probably like if you think of street art in another metaphorical sense as a pyramid. not there is a pyramid scheme. Banksy's probably the golden pinnacle of that pyramid.
KK: commercial pyramid.
R: And then there's, there's levels to it and there's layers and then there's, there's interjecting, undiscovered tombs as well.
KK: Those are the best bits.
R: which is yeah, I still think not everything's been done. You know in this
KK: that's right and that scene’s for you though innit because what is like whenyou open the
cookie jar - like all these different like you say different styles. and and like and I think that's where you come in, it's you don't proclaim to be that but because your stuff is taking pop cultural references and twisting it up in a particular way. That is quite punk, it's quite fuck you I'm doing this with this how'd you like that.
R: yeah that’s, that's exactly the my sort of mo I guess with a smiley face.
KK: that smiley face, 
R: that’s a version of it. but that's like the you know from UK hardcore like hardcore will never die.
KK: of course.
R: when I got into Drum N Bass and I took a back step and sort of, I've done my own history lessons on them. Where does Drum N Bass come from and then I realized like when I was into garage, why that's just an offshoot genre and that did its own thing and that was something you know. And then there's jungle and then like and then you're taking these. like really crazy pave steps backwards into how it's I don't know I just think, it's a beautiful thing when you step back through UK dance music of it, yeah and how on contrived that thing was and all of the offshoots of it. Like the UK hip hop thing and how that's got its own flavour and grime where that comes from and now it's, it's interested like how you see it like everyone now is appreciating the flower but it's you know, it's seeds were sown.
KK: Oh that's fire.
R: But they were they were they were back there and I genuinely wasn't into that first bit of Grime but I remember I've got records in my garage selection that I'm like this is when that's the transition. Yeah like Harry Lime and yeah even So Solid did a track called Dilemma and that's fucking like bass music. like it's dubstep. It's it's that moment of like woah.
KK: So fucking right, like what is the tipping point of people's attention. Is it? is it cer.. is it
Environment? Is it like? is it social? is it like something? What makes popular culture suddenly flip into popularity.
R: I think it's the same with art. It's the old guard eventually the old dies  So, the old guard is replaced by a new blood. So I know from some of my dealings with the music industry in you know look in the label sense higher up in A&R and stuff. I've got friends in that who fans of mine but they've now in these jobs. and so that that old guard is that there's a transition. These, these people are now yes now aging or you know they're into this. So that's a, that's a really good thing. And I wish I'd have known that young as a youngster. That shit man it's about the time and you know it's the same with politics like the old guard will die. It's harder, in politics, because there's a there's a, there's only a school of thought there, doesn't really shift very much
KK: it's like you can put a nice new engine in the old car. Doesn't necessarily mean the old car is going to be. 
R: I've taken to it too though. With that metaphor in mind we're now got electric cars so it's like, there is something there is a shift, there is a something new there. Oh there is a change coming like there is a I think it's interesting because again like referring to some of the other ones your. Your other podcasts some of these people were dealing with big corporates now and the creative directors of those are different to what they were 15, 20 years ago.
KK: that's what I mean you see um, who was I  talking to the other day, who was I talking to the other day… I saw that I'm gonna say this again so people probably heard it but it matches exactly we're talking about. The whole kind of Heinz ED-tchup. Tou know kept the ketchup now has Ed Sheeran on it and it's almost like that in it as an idea is that what Heinz doing a ketchup that's just changed its name to Ed Sheeran, you know.
R: what? Is that a thing.
KK: Yeah I don’t think I got on.   but yeah there's a real thing. They've changed it and it's just a tomato with the shape it in the face of Ed Sheeran. That's because it's Ed Sheeran fans have now infiltrated the PR world of Heinz. Its as simple as that.
R: really? Wow.
KK: that's what I’m, saying I think that you say there's, there's, a trickle system where as
like I. I think popular culture just it starts at an early age and then the old guard disappears then new people come in. It's cool to be into Banksy so why not check out Shok1 why not check out Ryca. because these people you know and like you say when we first started had we known that if we stuck to our guns through our whole creative process and just didn't stop, you know don't fall at the first hurdle. Get back up, carry on. Everyone had all the cream rise to the top. and they all follow suite you know what I mean.
R: that's it. I think that's like the one the one thing I always say to like people, who like youngsters who want a tip. It's just like just find something and stick with it like you've got to do, you've got to do. You're like 10,000 hours or you've got do you're ten years. It's the same thing it's like there's something in a in a decade of perseverance.
KK: there is yeah.
R: that solidifies it to yourself. I think like you've really got to be. If you don't stick to your guns for a decade then was you really into it
KK: that's right and let's be honest likethe best projects always ones that come to fruition after maybe four or five years.
R: Yes.
KK: I mean you have this like sweet spot where its like, yeah hey look I've just created these things.  it's gone viral or its had a thing, something's happened. Its gone up a level
R: takes time. it takes time and the other thing is like even when something goes viral, I'm like, if you if you could pick it. For me if I could pick and choose what of my work went viral. If someone said of all the stuff you've made only three things will ever go viral my choice, it's not gonna be the things that went viral.
KK: it’s so true.
R: That’s out of your hands and there's a beautiful thing of like the double edge sort of social
media I guess.
KK: You become that dude that does that thing and you just no but I like this thing, you know I'm that guy.
R: so on that, as a thing, it's like some people know me as the smiley face guy, as a, as a sort of, like oh there's a trippy you know. I'll get tagged in drippy smiley face things on Instagram saying are the you know someone's ripped you off. Like that mate I don't own this. And like you know isn't it you know more power to whoever's doing, drippy fucking, messy smiling man, like it's all good, like this is what it's about, hardcore will never die it only multiplies. They think it like I don't know whether they want to see beef all the time or you know because I think music has got a lot to blame for artists going and lockin horns.
KK: that's right
R: yeah totally, yeah, I mean I see those like, that smiley face. it's a calling, calling card, very much in the same, we like, when I think of when I think of Banksy. I think of the monkey you know the gorilla the with a bat.
R: one day I'll be in charge.
KK: yeah, you know it's, it's a kind of, its its brand face.
R: but for me I like that on a planet at the age level because you know, I didn't even the monkey wearing a sandwich or innocence. He did he'd version is his invention but that is a Planet of the Apes joke for me.  And and it's a beautiful thing that he made it into a stencils.
KK: the levels of thought in that.
R:  but that would that exist without Planet of the Apes. like he must be aware of planet of the apes.
KK: of course, oh yeah it was totally it was totally with intention.
R: yeah it's completely. that's why I think like you know, most, most, most, of his like portfolio. it's fucking genius because it's like shit man, this is um he's like want to try and try and compare him to a musician. he's on a level of like Prince or something like never is shit it's always consistently good.
KK: and you know what you're getting on the tin as well, you know, what your getting.
R: you know yeah and he's yeah, it's morphin and stuff. And I, I look at all my favorite artists throughout Art history have been sort of able to do that they slap bangers on bangers.
KK: yeah, yeah, yeah. it's just know what you're good at and keep doing it.
R: yeah or being able to change and bang it again and that and that's one of my personal objectives is like I'm not just gonna be the guy makes a smiley face, in one way. I've set myself a thing now called acid everything which is how do you shoehorn a smiley face into everything. But I didn't really invent that you could argue that you know Banksy did a happy chopper, he did a smiling copper, an grin reaper but then you know I know that the green reaper. comes from an a is tabloid for ecstasy.
KK: yeah, absolutely. so it's like do you think it's the context in which you put it in. Like for instance when yeah, the smiley face. Yeah, okay stick with that it is so it's a reference to a 90s culture in my Mind. but when you put it in a context of like a biggie smalls or teenage mutant hero turtle. it's like the shit is like you put it in the same playing field as that changes the whole attitude of the face.
R: yeah, yeah, we'll go back to a DJ's record bag. You know a good DJ can mix an old funk record yeah with a fast track that was made yesterday.
KK: Bro, shy FX he did like. he used to do like jungle versions of, do you remember back
in the day.
R: yeah, I mean like this is this is the thing when I realize I have to step the fuck away because I, I'm doing really know what I’m doing on that level and in order the people, I respect it. when I got in that when I sort of study jungle and Drum n Bass and like sort of thought about, what they're doing all the best people in those scenes are producers and I'm buying their records and then I'm going to watch them and they, don't play their own records that was a bit of a mindfuck for me.
KK: I see what your saying.
R:  like that's weird like most people like it's different like yeah, like I don't go if I went and see shy fx back in the day. He just didn't really lot, he didn't play an hour and a half of his own music, he might sneak a few in because you know the crowd are just gonna go mental.
KK: yeah like why is that. that is such a really good point like from a regular punter that wants to experience an artist why don't I mean I sure they do more now.
R: I mean I think if you go and see the more modern megastar DJ's they do it but yeah I work with Fat Boy slim a lot and he said really doesn't include much of like he's sort of you know bangers like.
KK: do you ever turn to him and say hey, listen what's going on.
R: yeah I’m like why don't, why just tease right here, right now.why not just bang it out he's like everyone's heard that like fifty is something else and it's refreshing because he's they become, they just like little tiny weapons that he can sneak in there their like little daggers.
KK: that’s the best shit. Ammo.
R: so in in a way right pull out the fucking sword then everyone's like look at the sword and he’s just like. Ah. oh my god and.
KK: cold.
R: I mean when I did the UK tour with him and the first day I never heard this set was gonna play and there's a part in it where he gets everyone to sit on the fucking floor in the arena. the floors shit in an arena of that size with that many people so they're sitting in beer mud. They sat down like give or take a few people that probably can’t sit down, and then the fucking place is quiet. He's and I was after the shower so what, what is that like the you’re, you're a God for those moments you're a. messiah,
KK: he’s in complete control like what did you do what did you do with him.
R: I was doing live art so we've done doing like smiley t-shirts they were pre-printed white t-shirts of a yellow splodge and then I was just doing.
KK: doing the faces.
R: doing faces and names and I had a booth in the main arena of all the gigs. and end up I think the number now is like over 500 T's.
KK: what you nailed 500? 
R: not in one gig, over the tour.
KK: right wow 
R: and you know some people want in dedication, some people just go well like do whatever you want. so and that's the thing like for me. I'm right, this isn't hardcore music this is like, not even big beat anymore, this is something else. this is like that but the the essence of where this all stems from is still kept alive and the 500 different incarnations of him with no preconceived black thing of they're just gonna, they're just gonna happen. they're gonna manifest themselves and a reaction to the music and it's quite it was quite good .it was like an experiment and it's fucking interesting man to just to sort of see the people not all wasters as well not all like totally out of it.
KK: yeah,you know. I think there's an age, gender there that kind of like you say. they'll hop back to the more Drum N Bass breakbeat rave days, but they're more in tune with nostalgia and have an age
where they can like take their kids to as well you know.
R: I did multiple sets of dad and daughter t-shirt.
KK: genius
R: you know mum, mum, dad.
KK: dude you saw the, you cleaned the fuck up bro.
 R: and that was that was a prett nuts to see like the whole family come and experience this guy transcended. He is. and reinvented himself.
KK: and and more power to him. that's fucking great, who else you worked with.
R:  I've done stuff with like Goldie and Metalheads
KK: ah nice.
R: and I'm trying to think… I've done I doing, I'm doing something, we've liked the mr. nice brand, and  I've done stuff for the UK government weirdly enough, back in the day did like wear a condom
Campaign. I wasn't like an artist as such, I was more the executioner of an art idea. 
KK: so um how long have you ,not been at, how long have you been an artis?
R:  I have been an artist for what we say 13 years now actively as.
KK: brilliant.
R: when I first put my first you know real signed artwork out there that was 13 years ago.
KK: and how was it was received?
R: that was, 
KK: was it a horror of silence was there, was there a
couple of like bigger things to make an impact?
R: so it was my art career launched in 45 minutes.so I there was no there's no like forums
for art at the time 2000 and not that I knew of,  but where I was looking at art and buying a few pieces on eBay so I launched my art career on eBay with my first poster was a burka wearing Mona lisa and it's an anagram. honour Islam, its Monalisa so that's my first piece and it's got like a tear dripping paint. you know open to interpretation street art, cliche or the drip and it as simple as that. it's like two colours.
KK: Did it go clear when you put it did you go clear with it? or did it not sell what was the?
R: no, 45 minutes it sold, from from not existing in art to : Bang first sell you know it was
something like 50 quid I was like shit
KK: that’s got some milage.
R:  yeah, yeah, as soon as you sell a piece of art. I think you're an artist even if you only ever sell one thing
KK: a 100 percent.
R: Not, not, the selling that validates you’re an artist. It’s nice because you can make art and never sell anything while you're alive. It's just that thing of like using technology at that time. And go. Fuck I've just I don't know what that's about like. They don't know me, they've just bought something and now sold only did 10 of like that first colourway and then I did another tech like they, they sold and it end up doing 100 because 10 different colorways and they never slowed down on almost like, shit what's my next image because I don't have a portfolio, I'm just sort of making this up as I go along.
KK: That's a scary shit isn't it.
R: Now, now I need to start going. Right, I need to come up with ideas but it wasn't like a fear thing I've got a lot of ideas and a lot of the stuff that, I like in this scene and this movement. I think I can have a go you know so I was like I just used that sort of typical stencil look because that was there. 
R: That’s the flavour at a time, that was the flavour, that was the, the thing of like those you know the mid-2000s. It was like stir… if you make if you make a stencil piece, you're um you're gonna be a chance of selling it yeah. and then there was a guy called Ellis who's, who's now a friend of mine and he he made a Star Wars image of Chewbacca getting a buzz cut and that was like fuck art, can have Star Wars in it that that's completely like it blew, my mind but also rather than me go well I can't do Star Wars are I was like oh right okay, someone just blew the fucking doors off of  of my…
KK:  so we went from like you know but base-level, street art you know your typical kind of was it called your typical kind of stencil and then it moved on to okay well could the con… concept feels like it really took shape once you had those pop cultural references in it. Yeah.
R: Because I like I said about the formula, earlier I was just like oh shit that you know that Chewbacca piece is essentially the same thing as the girl with the balloon. Yeah, like if you look at it on on a level and I was like okay I like Star Wars. I'm gonna do a couple of Star Wars images because I fucking want these myself. I want them to exist, they don't exist.
KK: That’s beautifully put by the way.
R: yes, so I was my next image was the reservoir troopers. Yeah that was that took a long time to assemble because this is before like Instagram and really good, like google searching. So I used to go through Flickr and look for convention pictures of people in cosplay to get all the helmet and tilt shifts right because… I was and there's also like an intentional joke in that image where the clone troopers are, are the background guides and the front guys are the original trilogy.
KK: That’s sick.
R: So, their sorta like you can go back there.
KK: you’re not the, the bonafide, yeah. I get it.
R: You haven’t yeah, you haven’t done your 10 years sorry. Get the fuck back.
KK: Yeah, that’s right.
R: But yeah, it was the joke of them, you know because they were all coloured and I was like well rather than Mr. White. Mr. Blonde whatever, They're all Mr. white helmet and that was the thing. I am there's been there's been so many bootleg versions of that image that I've done yeah and our people. I still get a message every couple of months saying have you seen this.
KK: Found one yeah.
R: yeah like someone's ripped you off was like they didn't really rip me off. I'm not really precious because I'm like oh no they just made their own shit character suit.
KK: It happens all the time bro. when it comes to beatboxing people still tagged me in and I'm just like  bro, art is love you know it's, it's give it away. It's not gonna, it's not going to go anywhere if you don't if you, if you're not submissive to it the ways and so much is out there now is you can't even keep up with it. I feel for Prince man, well Prince’s sister, like chasing all this kind of royalty-based stuff trying to stop people from using these songs. It's like you know, it's impossible task you can't stop people.
R: and it’s weird, wind like when an artist like who had so much control and like his vision, his, his sister probably still doesn't really understand his whole vision of what his art was about. 
KK: do you think, do you think anybody do you think, I mean podcasts are great for this, but do you think people really get a real true understanding of a artist’s vision by it's out by their output?
R: Because not really, because the output is only the shit you've released.
KK: That’s, that's right.
R: and like we know with Prince he's archive is big like there's a whole film I heard that Kevin Smith made.
KK: what.
R: Well there's a there's a whole fucking feature film that he had shot.
KK: stop.
R: And it's just on the shelf. This is also but this is also what I hate about well a
good artist dying is bad. I hate that. You just wish they were around forever um but it's also who takes control of their estate then you know. How many albums have we had since her died? Yeah, there's already like another one with we know, he wrote songs for other people. We don't need to hear his demos necessarily like you're, it's I don't know what that's about it's like you're taking you're taking just little fucking layers of the shell of every single time.
KK: Yes, the mystique, slowly lowering, it's true. Um okay talking of talking of this, okay let's move on to this what's your processing create. I mean looking at this, I mean like do you have like I'm I mean, oh by the way at this point no in no way am I trying to make you give away any of your trade secrets or secret recipes, okay. But you know when I look at the different mediums in which you work and there is no you there is no boundaries, like you’ve give me stuff, I'm just like wow bro like these gonna cost some money. Like even that one of paintings and like, just like, crazy this is crazy money. like right so how do you make this how do you put this into production.
R: So, the ones that end up being sold like this is a lot of an addition. there's only nine of each colour right in this size that is cast in solid resin painted distressed by me.
KK: This is the biggie smalls, Buddha by the way. If you're not watching.
R: The original sculpt sometimes, I sculpt other times, I get a sculptor, to help me out and I brief it and get just more productive. using this guy he's named Richard Martin, you should check him out.
KK: Hold tight Richard Martin. All day.
R: He's fucking sick. I'm doing a lot with him and a lot more with him hopefully there's something in the pipeline that we're gonna be doing together as both of us rather than him just working for that's me.
KK: Ah that’s fire. Okay.
R: So yeah, so he executed the point of it is he executed this Biggie to my brief, which is like I specked him out. I was like he needs to have a fat blunt instead of like the oyster that's a cash bag opening he's sitting on money he's got the fucking you know the smoking jacket robe he's got the double Jesus piece.
KK: So sick bro.
R: You know he's got his Versace shades on and he's peak hat like he's grandad cap or whatever he called it and, and, and in the caricature level to it like I don't want it to look like biggie smalls cosplay he
needs to be cartooned
KK: yeah, yeah, totally. and it does look cartoons that's what's crazy.
R: Yeah so, I'd say that's got like a probably a 40 to 50 percent cartoon filter applied to it.
Because that's what it needs to be like it's, it's ridiculous in its. When you see it, written down that's when you realize this is ridiculous. Right so if you then, tried to execute that for real, real looking it would lose I've believed it would lose something in its artistic presentation.
KK: so true.
R: Because it's like nah man that's that shit's whack like why have you why does biggie look like a
trip where is that you're like you're sold because it's all you know.
KK: Yeah, his character 
R: and and, the this stems from he's the rap god for me like as well probably lyricist wise biggie was.
KK: it speaks volumes. it's got layers I mean it completely makes sense and again just referring to like the new current state of pop culture and, and the Subliminal messages that have to be that I feel make for the best pop culture that You blatantly this has all of that.
R: and this like um you know people like bash modern rap mumble rap autotune all
that stuff.
KK: yeah, I don’t know why that is. 
R: Man it just means you're fucking old Guard now. This, isn't for you.
KK: yeah, yeah totally.
R: not all of this has to be for you and it's you know whether you like it or not. and there's a lot of hate for it because it's like the old Guard go wow this shit's not as good as like the stuff I know.
KK: it’s bull shit, I know I'm not I must admit I've said this in podcast before I'm not the biggest fan of too much auto tune simply because like in terms of performance value .
R: You can blame Cher for that as well.
KK: Yep, blame Cher, blame T-pain you know the fucking works
R: Cher did it like.
KK: Absolutely. it's such a well-trained machine and you know you know Zap and Roger back in a day
I can you know I get it I get it right but I miss harmonies and I miss shit that.
R: Yeah or multi-layered like, like there’s nothing wrong with a multi layered track. That's
kind of the cool thing about going to see live music when the people go I don't sound like the record because there's five fucking vocal tracks on it.
KK: yeah, yeah, yeah come on.
R: understand yeah there's a reason that there's a DJ playing most of the track behind it and this guy's he's you know the um the vocal like the acapella part of even like when you go and see like a lot of rap shows that's, that's in the background because that's
KK: it has to be.
R: and then they've always have always got their like side man who's filling in because no one canmfucking really do that with the high intensity of a stage show. Like yeah and a lot of people, I don't think appreciate because if they've never tried to do that, I mean I always say people like say to people if you didn't appreciate the live show next time, do karaoke, try dancing.
KK: for real yeah
R: and do the karaoke, you sound like shit you can't dance yeah and it's the whole things is embarrassing.
KK: Yeah Stromzy did a really good job of like articulating a lot on Glastonbury. Dunno if you saw the show that he put on it.
R: yeah .
KK: I think he nailed
R: and I think the sweet like chocolate boy moment.
KK:  that's crazy yeah, yeah.
R: I'm just like I mean I love what how he's using these platform for political. 
KK: Everything he's really holding in down. Do you fear the old guard? do you fear the idea of like maybe one day hypothetically of course, you'd fall in line with the old guard does that fear you?  I mean it fears me I would hate that.
R: What? To become the old guard?
KK: You fall into by default.
R: Yeah, you do.
KK: Just by.
R: Yeah, its weird like. Even from like a political standpoint, I’m seeing friends of mine,  like I’m a lifelong Labour voter. And I don’t care, I’ll tell people that. If you follow, some of shit gets political but, I don’t ever see myself leaning towards the blue side, do you know what I mean. But I’ve seen people I grew up with and when they swing, it’s because they’ve got the same things I’ve got going on, I’ve got a like two boys, a house and it’s like a conservative mentality is like conserve wealth. Conserve this thing but, it’s like so narrow minded. It’s like I want to look after my island. And that’s like the whole metaphor of Brexit, those people going, well I don’t want anyone else on my island. It’s literally that. Where I’m like dude, the reason your island is so fucking nice is because there was like a rich tapestry there that you built something on. And me being a , well I’m a product of immigration because my dad is Irish born in Ireland and all my family came over in the 60s, the Irish side but its easily lost because I don’t have a darker skin so you just blend into this sort of white privilege thing and that’s kind of odd, and for me I don’t think I’m ever gonna become the old guard because I’m like, no, don’t forget where you came from. Like the roots.
KK: the roots are so important.
R: the roots are where it’s at.
KK: And that’s like a education on all levels, art or politics or social anything. Education, you really need to, that keeps your spirit young, it keeps you up to speed and.
R:  I mean, I had arguments with my own family about this. I’m just kind of like what’s your favourite drink? And they are like “tea.” And I’m like tea…is like Victorian shit your talking about. And curry being the national dish, I’m like c’mon like this is. This is, this is why it’s like great. I mean there is no, the only sense of great I get from Britain is great being all them elements that make it you know and um people are like the old guard… I dunno man, I think to really, to really shake the old guard. I see it happening, I think social media is gonna be the next.
KK: course, yeah.
R: Again, we are probably, right. I’m not using social media, its for promoting most of the time. It’s a shame.
KK: me too.
R: it’s an adverting tool. And I don’t care. It’s just cool.
KK: I’m kinda there now. 
R: It’s alright. If that’s what your using it for. Cos there is a demographic who I know I don’t appeal to, if I look at the analytics of my followers. I don’t appeal to very young people. I’m Appealing to my own group. That’s fine, I’m.
KK: I’m kinda, the same. In a lot of ways. There’s a small handful of people, but once you’ve kinda mastered your craft and hone in your audience, there is a level of piece to that.
R: I mean, it’s cool, you can. I’m not in like a comfort zone. I just wanna keep making cool stuff and exploring and testing myself but, the next channel for me is like, can I do what.. almost what Crobin did in a way. It’s like appeal, that is appealing to like two, three generations. 
KK: It is, It really is yeah. 
R: and that’s why I liked him. Like, I warmed to him. I guess I was sold the media story of look at this guy. 
KK: yeah.
R: what, I, I, don’t care what he wears, I wanna hear what he’s saying. And I kinda like what he’s saying and ultimately, I think he tapped into that younger generation that really know how to use what the internet is gonna become. We, we are just like, we evolved with it and I guess in that sense we are first wave internet users.
KK: Yea, we are. I remember the time before.
R: And I think the cool shit always comes in the second and third wave.
KK: Yeah, its true. Its so true. I love that.
R: So like I’m fucking, I’m loving it. Like what’s going on in Hong Kong right now. And these, public uprising um and there’s gonna be a time where the old guard is toppled because they are essentially philistines. 
KK: they were caught slipping. Caught slipping. 
R: I’ve seen it happen. I’ve seen the music industry.
KK: totally dude.
R: The music industry literally had its pants down. And you know.
KK: there’s something so liberating about it, isn’t there?
R: TV is going the same way.TV is almost there.
KK: I have these running kind of back and forth with people about the pro and cons of tech and what is appropriate and I’m like mate, I can just get my phone and record some shit and just because it doesn’t work for ITV and channel 4 standard, you think I give a fuck. Like no one gives a fuck anymore. Like no one cares, just get the shit out.
R: this exists, and you know its its um I guess the only think like it is euro trash.
KK: we were talking about that!
R: it’s the only thing that comes close to anything.
KK: and the word, the word as we,
R: Yes, the word, yeah, yeah that’s um.
KK: but Eurotrash was the one, because it was tv magazine throw away, like dumb shit you’d see in a lad mag.
R: it’s like before loaded before all that stuff and you know if you well for me, we are more or less the same age. So, if you stay up late enough your gonna see some nudity on Terrestrial tv, that’s pretty fucking cool.
KK: yeah, yeah. Get over it.
R: but that’s gone. Almost instantly, watching a film with a bit of nudity in it or keeping a porno mag that like a completely dead thing.
KK: nah, nothing happens like that anymore.
R: Like you’ve got the worse possible shit of anything you’re into in the palm of your hand. Like as a young, that’s what I’m saying, second generation, like, how the fuck are they coping with not only that but like Facebook shit. Ya know, I use to come home from school, and I’d be like ah, you know 12 hours of not seeing those dick heads. And then have to go back. Ya know now, there’s no rest by it.
KK: good point, good point. And also think of the level karma is running through these kids’ minds, you never know what actually harbouring inside the phone. There is so much information that’s being passed around in their heads and circulating, say porn and what not. And like you said, there use to be this open forum of like, there’s the top shelf which one should we have, you know.
R: well you try and grab one down and sneak it your bag to kind of another mag to kind of. I’m just like browsing fucking game masters
KK: yeah, yeah, yeah , yeah. But now days it’s so hidden and well secret and in the hands of holder and 
R: yeah and what does that, and how does that mold their brains.
KK: That’s what I’m saying.
R: and their relationships.
KK: That’s what I’m saying. That’s some madness isn’t it.
R: That’s scary isn’t it, but we are talking about the dark side of it. The flip side is they are seeing. No, if they feel a kind of way about something that is going on in their life they can also speak up and there is a fucking global forum.
KK: which there has never been achieved on any level before. 
R: And your seeing like young activist, that are the spear headed stuff. 
KK:100 percent.
R: and that’s the future man, like they are the ones that are really shaking the politicians.
KK: 100 percent. 
R: they are shaking the foundations. But, um. Just to use the technology thing, I used to get, not so much now, I used to get a little bit of, like shit talk about like Oh, none of your stuff is like hand cut. Mate, what’s the point of like hand cutting with a stencil if you got a laser machine.
KK: I agree, I agree
R: Ya know, they made, they made, a tool that can do this and some peoples whole thing is like, to hand cut them.
KK:  Good.
R: Good for you. I don’t care about it. Personally, I don’t care.  Don’t want to make a stencil, I’m not hand cutting it.  I’m not getting a dent in my finger and I’m not getting blades out.  I’m gonna do it the quickest possible way.
KK: Quickest, possible way. Thank You! A 100 percent. Your career, your industry, Your creative process, Everything from the moment you wake up till you go to sleep is about systems you have in place and the quicker you can get to A to D the better your output. Your living in a new generation of people that don’t give a fuck. 
R: it’s the age of technology, like um you know I’ve got a C&C machine and all my work more or else aside from like things I have to outsource cos I don’t have things that cut metal and.
KK: of course, of course.
R: I get it done elsewhere. But, I used to have this like, even like a self, um, I its. like a self-doubting bit, that’s like ah I didn’t make that. Is it really mine? 
KK: That’s the purist in you though, of what you expectations would be of other people right? 
R: yeah and then the more you. And yeah and no, no, it was generally like no that’s why I like to make stuff. I, I learned how to paint, paint techniques and I didn’t learn to spray doing graffiti. I learned to spray objects because I did model making. So I learned to spray well.  
KK: sick ya.
R: so to do graffiti, you have to unlearn for me.
KK: yeah, I get you.
R: and I like I know of writers that came from that and a lot of my peers and writers who’ve got that story. I’ve only met a handful that have come from my background which is like the pure way and coming and undoing and art is like a lot of when you read about art history and some of the most interesting things that happened in art and in music came from unlearn, the mistake.
KK: I love it.
R: and that’s for me is like yeah, I can spray on a wall if I want to but there Is so many great people out there doing it, it’s like.
KK: its congested. 
R:  like what’s the point, I would rather spend my time like making some shit that will hopefully become family heirlooms .
KK: yeah, yeah. exactly.
R: do you see what I mean, l like I know that’s, that’s gonna last longer than. I know it last longer than walls because I just had a wall painted last week by my local borough. and I just, it just makes me think, I don’t ever want to do a fucking wall again unless its like ya know, properly signed off and it’s gonna be there for like x amount of time.
KK: it’s so hard isn’t it.
R:  yeah, yeah, I’d rather make something tangible. That someone has to look after. Me being a toy collector and a record collector when I’m like, I’m, I’m, I don’t even know how much records are now because I don’t buy them but, when they were like 6 quid. You are looking after them because that might be the only time you ever get that. 
KK: so true.
R: disogs wasn’t a thing. Shit, I gotta look after this fucking 12 because that’s a tune and If I scratch it or it gets bent or broken or fuckin left in the sun, I’m screwed
KK: all of that yeah.
R: I’m gonna like pay like 30 quid because this songs gonna be like a rare tube.
KK: that’s a thing to think about, like the holding of a product that adds the emotional value to it that holds that emotional value to it and the context to in which you would be ya know, this is music and 
R: and it’s a 6 pound double a side, like a white label, bootleg drum N bass track.
KK: that’s incredible. 
R: but for me I’m like these are a certain price point because um there’s a lot of handmade. Its handmade, its manufactured in a sense of like they are handmade and there’s no factory I can go to can you bang. Me out 90 pieces of this. 
KK: But this is all of that, like. Like I’m not taking my hands off it really. This is the real shit. and that sign as well its like what???
R: It’s like real buddhas you like 
KK: four fuckin nine. C’mon.
R: real buddhas um in like Asian countries. This is based on like a Chinese buddha. 
KK: yeah, yeah.
R: being the fat buddha. that’s why he fits this, fits this boot, and I’ve done another buddha which is like Zen trooper which Is a storm trooper and he’s based on a Japanese buddha who is a ? . They are all buddha icons, but they are different and when you read about them culturally, Chinese buddhas, he’s about wealth. He’s got the pearls and it’s all about like for good prosperity.  There’s more capitalist agenda to this icon that sits in a communist country. It’s really weird. its personal wealth. And you rub his belly. That’s why the belly is always shiny. And I was like, yeah, he suits that. Mo Money, Mo problems right, it’s that.
KK: see this is gold dust bro.  this whole concept is just like.
R: and the reason for doing a storm trooper as a buddha and in a sort of more Zen edition was because he is from popular culture, is an icon we can all relate to from war.  He’s, he’s sort of like he’s ducked out of fighting and what happens in the new film? I made my, first zen troopers he a pacifist and he’s like I’m not fucking fighting these wars. I’m here, I found like a new thing, he’s still in his amour because that represents that sort of hop backs to the reservoir troopers. His identity is that armour.
KK: that’s sick.
R: and in that new film came out, what happens? You have John Boyega character defects.
KK: yeah, yeah totally.
R: he’s like no, I’m not shooting innocent villagers, so he’s like I sort of like fuck I made a tiny little prediction 
KK: yeah, yeah, you kind of leaped it a little forward.
R: I watched it and I was like yeah that’s kind of pretty fucking cool like I’d like to think somewhere, that someone saw the storm trooper and was like shit that’s like a interesting point of view,
KK: but, like why not though. But why not?
R: For me I’m like I’d like to hope.
KK: Your shit is going a lot of places, its being seen in a lot of like, I mean you’ve got exhibitions. You’ve got people like of higher ranking like cultural places hitting you up saying. I mean this is like goes without saying.  I wouldn’t be surprised.  I mean it.
KK: Your shit is going a lot of places, its being seen in a lot of like, I mean you’ve got exhibitions. You’ve got people like of higher ranking like cultural places hitting you up saying. I mean this is like goes without saying.  I wouldn’t be surprised.  I mean it.

R: no, like if your using pop culture, in effect you are becoming pop culture. Because then I always think back to.
R: no, like if your using pop culture, in effect you are becoming pop culture. Because then I always think back to the purity of stuff. And the storm trooper isn’t an original concept. I mean the name the harsh name of Nazi storm troopers. And the armor is like going back to levels to Japanese show guns and knights.
KK: totally, yeah, yeah, yeah.
R: It’s like it’s an armoured warrior, going into battle. It’s not like origin, isn’t really Star Wars, that borrowed from stuff. When you, every time you trace back you end up at big bang of everything. Like the origin of the species. Popular culture becomes like criss cross mis match of stuff.
KK: and I think it’s really important to well to recognize that in your own work. I remember back in, as you do in school you justify every action within it though.  I’m looking at this right now, what’s that all about.
R: That’s just um I sort of keep it, cos sometimes I have like a.
KK: he’s got a book the table, by the way.
R: It’s just a moleskin sketch book but, I just keep it because that’s a Basquiat covered on.
KK: yeah, yeah.
R:  but, um, I find myself, I got Tourette’s of the hand. Cos I used to, I used to completely annihilate, you remember telephone books?
KK: Yeah.
R: My Mum use to have a telephone book, with the little tabs.
KK: yeah, yeah, yeah.
R: And it was fucked. It was so, I wished I had one now. I wish I would have kept it because it would have came at hieroglyphic.
KK: That’s sick.
R: Like not even on the phone, ah there’s a pen and pad there always so I would just be subconsciously drawing this stuff and um, and I like travelling on public transport and especially long haul flights, that’s when most sort of , like that thing when your like nearly going to sleep and your like I should go to sleep cos when I land I’m fucking out of my time zone this is where I should be resting but, I come up with some mad shit and I’m just like wow. And I ‘m just coming up with all the like.
KK: I love the virility of like the thinking process.
R: Like these weird, like these orbs and and then some of them are like oh, that’s a bit too much and then I’m like I really like this one.
KK: sick yeah yeah.
R: like little tilt shifts. It’s like a lot of this I got a book. And I go through these like really quickly now. I used to do like one a year.
KK: it’s a flow state isn’t it.
R: I like half started them and the process is just weird it’s like and you know there’s like notes in there like invoice this person, do this. Amongst all the.
KK: I mean its beautiful, it’s like totally its need to be, it’s like documentation at its best.
R: yeah, it plans, and the plans change, and I always delve back into sometimes I look back through the years cos I always start them, I put a date in there. I haven’t actually dated this one because it’s quite fresh, it’s a couple of few weeks old. Um I like looking back at the old ones cos I’m like shit there was a solid idea there. It’s like what I said earlier.
KK: it’s so important, this stuff is inspiring man, its inspired me man. Even to just document your day.
 And then you can go back and look.
R: cos I think that’s I always wanted to keep a diary, but that thing of writing it down and reading it back is bullshit. But in a way if your like Instagram, if you’re on Facebook,
KK: you’re doing it anyway.
R: more than ever.
KK: yeah, its true.
R: and we are all contributing to the 21st century manga carta. Like never before. That’s why targeted ads are blowing my mind at the moment. Like they are listening to shit and then you get a targeted and nah, it can’t be right. So, me and wife we did it. We did it. We were like we are gonna talk about this and the phones were in the other room and no word of a lie within 24 hours this fucking advert pops up and it was really random like not on like what we spoke about before, it was like something fucking mad like a spring. ya know like shock absorbers and it was like what the fuck.
KK: shit son, that’s scary shit.
R: its mad like, this is insane. 
KK: damn,
R: we don’t talk about this, we aint mechanics. And its coming up. 
KK: Damn. 
R: so, they are listening.
KK: the future is coming for you bro. keep it documented man and this is fucking sick, bro and that shit will just, like you say, there’s different levels in which you document and ya sometimes are better spoken than not but, like documentation is key.
R: yeah, I mean one of the most interesting things for me when I look at artists I like is the sketch books, is the process, is like why I do the art I do which Is um, kind of like multimedia disciplines. Cos, I wanted to. Be a model marker and I studied model making. I like art, I got a A star on my GSE, I went to a really shitty school in East London but, I got the best results and I was one of those people who just dossed about because I could do it. I was properly. Thinking about it now, it was probably a bit cuntish of me to my other mates because I was like dragging them down, when they really needed to like study and I didn’t. 
KK: I get ya. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.
R: and there was no grammar school in the borough I grew up, so we never did level pluses and we were all just lumped in. and there was genuinely a few geniuses in our school. But they are just stuck in the school.
KK: Um what’s the future? What’s going on? What happening in the future?
R: I’ve got some exhibitions lined up, I’m trying to like, sort of evolve my work again. So hopefully those two go hand in hand. Like the evolution of my work will like be in a show in Miami. That’s gonna be like in the first quarter of 2020.
KK: sick.
R: Um, maybe Japan again, I just love that place. As a toy collector man, there’s just like shops dedicated to. Its shameless. whereas like, its less now but, like being a toy collector, it’s just like, it’s the nearest I can relate to someone who has to come out. I’m like, I’m a toy collector and there like shame on you.
KK: yeah yeah.
R: it’s like I don’t give a fuck. I’m in Japan mother fucker.
KK:  Its true.
R: I just sold a toy to a guy in America. This is a true story. I picked it up for like 200 quid 6 years ago. I sold it to him for 800 quid because I knew what I was buying, and I’ve I’m like I can let some of this shit go now. I’ve never sold a record; I’ve sold some toys. I dunno, I dunno what that’s about but, yeah.  The future for me Is like, I like going to Japan and finding shit I collect. I found a load of course. Last time I was there like 6 no, 5 years ago I picked up the last of the core stuff that is hard to get now. Yeah, it was like ridiculously fucking cheap, you know the…core...
KK: yeah of course.
R:  the chum doll. I got 5.
KK: Damn.
R: A whole set for 1500 quid. At the time I was like shit man, that’s aloft of fucking scratch for a set of 5 toys but I’m gonna bite the bullet. One of them is signed. The black one is signed cos that was from his website turns out. and some of them are 1000 pieces, some of them are 500. I can’t remember which ones are which so, as a set, no one can really
KK: fuck with them
R: not everyone can have the set. Cos some them are really limited.  Got is shipped back and I made a little acrylic case for it and a dedicated shelf and it floats, its been there for 5 years, they sat there, they are as I got them. Now cos I put pictures on Instagram and stuff I get hit up. Someone offered me 17,000 euros.
KK: no.
R: and I was like, I’m not selling them. Like you just looked at a picture on my Instagram, and think just because what it’s on there, I want to sell.
KK: yeah
R: I’m like nah man, that’s like. That, that always feels like shit maybe I should doctor one and put it on there a little bit more, and this isn’t all advertising.  Like I want you to buy a Biggie, I want you to buy a Buddha smalls, but I don’t want you to send me. I was more getting. I don’t get insulted but, I was more insulted by that. That you think that I have a price. 
KK: maybe it’s just because your output is one of commodity. Nah I think that’s probably it.
R: Nah, no I didn’t like react to him like fuck you, I was like shit man, he’s willing to drop 17,000 , like that’s a lot of money on this thing. Like shit, when I speak to. My wife about it she’s like well, you know. Do we really need them there? I’m like yeah, do we actually fucking need them. 
KK: Hello, on the grass, hello.
R: that’s a lot of stuff in my house that I’m fortunate enough to like pure reason and they appreciate. That’s my,
KK: well as you can see my place is I collect a lot of dust. Do you know what I mean. If I can sell that I’ll be more than happy. 
R: but you’ve got an interesting collection of like things that like I’ve never seen before. So that for me, that’s really interesting. I can tell it’s a pure thing, their almost like your fucking souvenirs .
KK: yeah its true actually. I’ll give you that.
R: their your milestones. Your um.
KK: its random shit. But ya,
R: their memoires, of all these like nostalgia is such a powerful time machine. I think the sense of smell and the sense of visual simulation they are everyone DeLorean. 
KK: we are all like that.
R: like you got to find that thing that takes you back. Might not even be to a happy place but like take you back somewhere and like some of your pieces on the wall, I don’t have any personal connection to them but, I’m interested in that worm hole and hopefully some of the things I’m making are that like this worm hole when someone sees biggie , if they haven’t listened to biggie in a while  but they got that on the shelf, every now and then they can be like oh shit yeah, like I remember biggie and like for me, I’m a big biggie fan, like I discovered him I think about like 2 weeks before he died. So  like I hate that shit. Like someone said to me recently, oh you should listen to who’s the guy who does hustle. He got killed in America, like a newish rapper. He’s been around like 10 years, dipsey.
Nipsey.
KK: Nipsey, yeah alright okay.
R: someone said oh have you listen to him, and I’m like no, I kind don’t want to because like if its good.
KK: it would hit you.
R: he’s already done. He’s all over. There’s nothing new. Like I can’t anticipate anything not gonna go and see him. Like it kind of like ah shit do I even open the tape. I should but it’s a weird place.
KK: the price aint gonna come down. Not anymore.
R: Its like fuck man. Its so depressing.
KK: but I think what. I think of artists is one thing that is really important Is like retain a legacy and like keep going to the like end so to speak, you know what I mean. You gotta keep it moving around. So, important.
R: I mean, what’s your end goal? What’s your legacy. I think about that .
KK: I think about it everyday. I mean the most important thing is an artist is to stay alive.
R: this will resonate forever, like the way past us, like to even have that concept of fuck someone watching this whos not born yet.
KK: 15 years.
R: Or they look at my work, and all they see is this is why you shoydlnt study it
KK: but yeah, your right. Well, like the perfect place to pack up, you know.The future is bright. The future is in constant creating and elevating
R: and can I tell you something. They did predict the future would be orange.
KK: bro.for real. Fuck ya.
R: fuck you warned us man.
KK: Ladies and gentleman. Its been a perfect morning, charmed as you as person and same about your artwork brother.
R: thanks man.
KK: Thanks so much man, thanks for passing through my brother 
R: no problem man.
KK: Ladies and gentleman, Ryca inside the building. Um thanks for stopping by man
R: no problem.
KK: don’t forget to subscribe people, do not sleep, I repeat, do not sleep on the Killa Kela podcast strikes again with vengeance, stay lucky people. Peace.