Todays Podcast is with Graffiti Artist & Tattoo award winning artist Dan Gold. Dan is a classic example of "a life of mini lives", born in Copenhagen he was one of the figureheads in the internationally recognised, and notoriously known crews, the legendary MOAS crew. To then leave Scandinavia for the UK to pursue art and tattooing, he eventually struck success in a Tattoo show called London Ink. He Then created his own alternative / street art gallery & shop "Monsters Of Art", and now runs Dan Gold Tattoo's in the west end of London. We're talking early Graff, MOAS, the missions, the 90's scene, London Ink, the Tattoo scene, Tim Westweeod Vs Krs One, Monsters Of Art, creativity and way more. this is Dan Golds Podcast. Documenting the Graffiti Artists of History past, before their critical acclaims and contributions to the urban arts. Disclaimer: This presentation is for documentation and educational purposes only. No hard drive copies, footage or records of any interviews are held by Killa Kela and once uploaded to the outlets listed below, those are the only records in existence. Any illegal activity discussed is neither encouraged, supported or incited.
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DAN GOLD (MONSTERS OF ART/MOAS - GRAFFITI ARTISTS/TATTOOIST) KKPC #154 transcript
KILLA KELA: Hello and here we are, nice and comfortably in our humble abodes, this is the Killa Kela podcast, Live and direct central London, or as central as you need to be be. Big shout out to Graffiti Kings and without further to do transmitting live across via secret Locations, MOAS, secret location is the man like Dan Gold the place how are you brother?
DAN GOLD: Killa Kela, how are you? you good?
KK: good thank you yeah. you know like I was saying before we jumped on, I've had a few happy mistakes gone with zoom I'm really, I'm actually really feeling the connectivity of just even though we're not in the room just doing it you know what I mean.
DG: yeah I think it's weird isn't it with this lock down 'cos it's almost bringing some people closer together and it's using technology how it it should have been used before the lockdown, it's kind of weird isn't it?
KK: yeah it makes you realize how complacent we were towards the end, of that era that technology, that technology era, like Oh yeah just throw that we don't care we got these silly memes, we've got appropriation every other sort and little fake news things flying on every other subject matter, then will suddenly just kind of stops.
DG: yeah and we were really miss using the technology like you're saying , you know we got these amazing telephones they can just do anything and just sending stupid memes to each other and ridiculous things were using it for, but it just shows how important they are now and how, how far we've come really you know, I saw a funny um meme, finally enough imagine if this was like 12 years ago would be sat with sour nokias and we got like 300 text and you know.
KK: You know it, you know it, this is the thing, your able to do things like multitasking on its DM inbox multiple, WhatsApp. Facebook level you know you know when we talk about using technology you know properly; I cannot credit you enough for your backdrop that's going on right now. Total Result, love it, love it, I mean, listen, let’s dive right in, cause I tell you what we had you on the live stream show the other week and we show share so many similar common understandings and walk parts of life and I'm just like dude like I didn't realize you stop peeling back the layers and layers of your career, from the graff, from where you originate from, to where you landed, in way before you become and all these different you know bells and whistles that come into from graff to tattooing and it's crazy man, it's crazy, when did it or where did it all begin let's go back to the graff?
DG: well I can tell you exactly when it began, um it was 1994 and the local council had a graffiti competition and actually the two guys that was up against was Bates, you know the style king, and I won it. And the first prize was and stupidly enough it was the council who organized it and the first price was eight spray cans and that just changed my life and then the same week, the was that the only reason, it was quite funny cause Bates is obviously one of the most fantastic graffiti writers in the world and their piece was a lot better than mine but they they put “war” and it was like a “peace” kind of competition And I put “peace” so you know but so I won but, not because mine was better and then the same week we will start trying to download a computer game on the condor 64, which I don't know if you remember that there was quite a quite a thing, you know you had to take a little cassette and it took like you know now and a half and then an error would come up and my friends.
KK: total hell.
DG: brought a book, it was subway art and it was sort of and I just remembered to this day I looked down and that covers and there was probably about what 25 different panels of New York subway train graffiti art and uh I think from that day the penny just drop I just thought, looks like someone had introduced me to something magical and And I just, I just wanted to recreate that feeling that those pieces that when I looked at them they gave me and then we went out and we just tried to recreate it and you know pioneering our own times, we had one brand of spray paint in Copenhagen called quick they had like 6 different you know, basic colours and it didn't matter how good an artist you were you just could not make it look good.
KK: That's an age-old story though, bro. You know knows a creativity to this thing wasn't there. DG: yeah you had a signal red and a corn, corn blue, I never understood why it was corn blue and and the two colors with just the most horrendous clashing colors, actually I've used them in the background,
KK: very good, very good, the references.
DG: yeah but um and that was when the whole culture of hip hop just kind of flooded over Europe and then the backdrop is from Style Wars so it's my take on the same piece you know and it was it's just an iconic piece and an iconic film you know you saw break dancing and and and be B-boying and Djing and all these things in the first time you know, Dougie fresh and the get fresh crew, it was just like overwhelmingly, the visuals, the sound, the noise I just, I just knew that that was the path for me and to this day it's you know it's not changed it's it's you know like I was 12 years old back then I could hardly reach up to trains to paint them.
KK: Mad, Mad. You know what I’m kind of inspired by this is whole ideas that like, when people, whether, whether your noted as being someone that inspires particular person whatever you do hold certain puzzle pieces to someone else’s future, their creative DNA, it's like they, people they magpie creative ideas and then they regurgitate it into their own thing, and it's crazy to think that in Copenhagen you were there and it only took that one thing. What do you think about the process of making a damn book for instance you know; I mean but It took that one thing?
DG: That’s that's followed me all through my life because even though like you say, it’s that one person, that one artist maybe that one piece ,you know I remember it clearly as well as a revolt piece that was on the front cover and I just looked at it looks like how how can you how can you do that with spray paint and it took me like 10 good, 10 years to maybe try and find out how to recreate it, but in that whole process, I created pieces that was now inspiring other people.
KK: Totally
DG: and and those kind of pieces that we did back then thinking we're trying to recreate what we saw , then inspired the next generation, that is quite funny cause I'm just talking to somebody, they were like kids when I was painting but they now, obviously yeah, they are now in their 40s, well 30s at least and they were just like, hey dan man, it’s just so great, you know you inspired us, when we were little and young and now there the older generation that is inspiring next, it’s amazing.
KK: yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's amazing, do you have do you think um with, with with that in mind when you hear other generations say to you, oh you inspired me back in the day, does that trigger you in negative as well as a positive, does it make you think to yourself uh well I’m still I’m still a contender now.
DG: This is a hard one, it’s a hard one isn't it; I was on a wall painting and there were some kids there, I finished my piece and then I put my tag up and the two kids, was going. wow look at that proper old school and I was like wow, I thought, I still see myself as one the new kids you know.
KK: Yeah, dude.
DG: I think it's really great about any kind of long career in anything if you're a musician or are you an artist or did you go through like it's weird you go through stages don't you, it's like it's like music especially so you pop on to the scene you’re the young kid, you're a cool one, while you can't put a foot wrong everyone loves what you're doing its innovative then you become kind of mainstream and then the real fans starts turning their back on you then you become a little bit like yesterday news.
KK: there has to be a book about this yet surely. It’s true. It’s fucking true.
DG: You become irrelevant, your kind of struggling and then all of a sudden if you carry on and you you stay focused you have tunnel vision classic.
KK: yeah.
DG: and then you can get, you almost, like I'm in a part of my career, now where I’m almost getting like a second win because you're now part of the old school, you're part of the establishment and you become like a master of your craft almost, do you know what I mean?
KK: Have you been reading my diary?
Win because of the old school diary and winning the trophies judge I'm giving them up when DG: It’s a new role you know, It’s, it’s weird, like going to the tattoo conventions and winning the trophies, when I was young. And I would go to tattoo conventions and be a judge and now I’m giving them out.
KK: Same as me man, same as me. You know I’ve actually come to design, you know like when you hear a, you know you hear my beat box sounds very similarly, I'm going to refer to beatboxing cos it's the closest thing comparable to what you're saying and definitely something that you hit a few nails on the head there um, I think, I think I’m beat box sounds as you know there not, because this is, I think see to some young, young, young kids there old school but other people are still a unreplicable because I've made them distinctively mine so now I'm like well you know like how Wiley has his own sounds and DJ Premier has his own sounds and Neptunes had their own sounds, I'm trying to modify it so that not only does it become even more untouchable but it can be cookie cutted and no matter where you hear it, its oh that's a Killa Kela snare, do you know what I mean?
DG: yeah and I think that that's where you have to you have to stick with it you have to sort of go through that wall of you have to realize that that's the hardest time, when you when you establish that because that's when no one’s really paying any attention but you have to kind of go inwards and really pick the boat you know what's solid about your style. What is it that distinguish you from other people and then be really brave and believe it and then develop it and make it maybe make it stronger and maybe not try and look so much that younger people or the trends are doing and stuff and for me that was really hard because you know like you there's a point where in graffiti or in tattoos you do a piece you look at it and then you look at these young kids and you think woah OK I don't know how to do that I do not know how you do that you know what I mean.
KK: yeah 1000%
DG: different time in graffiti where people are putting up like portraits with aerosol now it's like I don't even know I don't even know how to do it you know let alone have the talent to do it, but I don't actually know how technically to do it and that's when I had to pull back and go with the style that we did we developed was an important part of the history of hip hop and important part tattooing and then really feel really be brave and just go you know that's that's my thing and then carry on with it, and people are like alright he’s not going away I guess it's a classic .
KK: and only you can do it bro like this is the thing as well. there is some real dark places isn’t there when cause I've been there you know when you know you look like you're in this kind of no man's land of you can't be too influenced by like you say a newer generation because you want to compete, but you don't want your fan jumping , you’re a fan of the arts it's like it's hard not to be but you still need to be really certain about your style and for every for every month that goes past you've just gotta really build up your armor and stakes of no, this is right everything is right, this is what I'm here to do this is my thing this is my Lane
DG: But also I think there is kind of that things like this and whatever you do, always say that too, too, too my apprentice or the people work with me I've got this amazing team of young artist, if you draw and it was something that was told to me when I used to do comics and cartoons, if you draw let's say a Volkswagen Beetle we all think we know in our head what it looks like is the same I guess with your stuff music you think you know what that peak sounds like but if you start doubting yourself and drawing it without any kind of sense of commitment people who look at it will see that kind of insecurity or people who listen to the music will see through that whereas if you draw it with conviction and they all said to me it's like a synonym is your F-in cartoon so if you draw it that way is your rules and when can you do things with that kind of commitment and that kind of self-belief, other people will believe in what you do. It’s an energy, right?
DG: exactly.
KK and that's why you feel here.
DG: That’s why you can’t fake art, up because they will see straight through it. If there’s any kind of of insecurity in what you do or any kind of lack of self-belief, and that's why we have those ups and downs because, the the moment you start losing your own self belief in what you do people see straight through it and you'll plummet and the fall is hard you know.
KK: They feel it. They feel it before they see it and hear it, that's the thing.
DG: Exactly.
KK: um just to bring it back up to speed ladies and gentlemen, for those of you that you are out of the loop Dan Gold was part of a formidable European Scandinavian crew called MOAS. Woah, did they take over, you know what I mean. And there’s some, aside from which on top of that years and years and years of tattooing setting up monsters of art shop in north London West End he had, still has a Dan Gold tattoo shop but let's take you back to MOAS. So, what was the philosophy behind that that crew and how did that formulate.
DG: so, MOAS crew was just four guys and I wasn’t part of the original 4 but I was part of the next next generation that was well the next lot like went in, so when I was in those six so we were next two people that came in.
KK: The young guns.
DG: Well we were all the same age but we came from two different housing Estates in Copenhagen and anyone who's been to Europe and knows that kind of scene know it is quite a rough scene, the 2 Estates would never mixed and if they did mix it would end very badly so we had to we were sort of doing our thing, on our branch line and they were doing their thing and their branch line and at one point, we kind of merged and and it was just it was just magical because it was like it was like family you know, I mean it's like you know when you have you don't feel like you belong anywhere and then you find a group of people and you all just gel and we all ended up living together in a big house and it was just it was just fantastic.
KK: Wow.
DG: just to reach is full, because when you live in that kind of environment was very often told that you're not gonna amount to anything you know, there’s no future and I know a lot of listeners probably, who come from those start of backgrounds, relate to that and and one of the things I would like to sort of tell people is that you can change things you can do it doesn't matter where you come from it matters where you're going and again it's all about self-belief whether you believe you can or you can't you're right you know I mean.
KK: yeah 100%
DG: and we just we just wouldn't have it we just thought you know we this is our place as much as anyone else is why are they telling us what we can do so we kinda just took over and we just kind of recreated what we thought that the kind of New York scene was but obviously you know like when you see Japanese culture taking on rocket, we totally exaggerated in their heads so it became something completely out of control at one time was like to stay in the crew had to paint like three times a week you know.
KK: I’ve heard people say that, Charlie Shaze said the same thing about um with seen when he was when he was doing he was doing a tattoo shop out there in New York and he would say that scene would have Graff writers come in for advice and stuff and he just be out with don't even come in here unless you have 500 dubs in one night. like Jesus Christ, do you know what I mean? I guess that becomes your tolerance level, it reaches that point where is the.
DG: yeah I mean I remember one time and it never been done before we were like we done whole cars I'm going to do a whole train we didn't know if it could be done because the Danish trains are really long and we just didn't have any ideas and it's that weird thing, it's like you know what you see um the Olympics and stuff it's like no one can jump 2 meters for ages and then all of a sudden, one person does it and then the next year everyone can do it. No one broke that whole train thing and we were like we got 22 young writers included with buckets of like primer paint and it all went wrong with so many kids everywhere and police stormed the whole area was running into you know doorway yeah it was completely chaos.
KK: what?
DG: it was absolutely, everyone got arrested and we were like hiding up went up some stairwell in the yard with chosen wasn't right in the middle of Copenhagen called and it was like stupidest yard to do that but we just didn't realize how how you do it we just thought the only ways with normal wall paint but we're gonna need a lot of people to do it then of course big fat cats came out and we ended up doing a couple of whole trains but and then after we did it everyone did it you know but the first attempt was absolute chaos, kids running around there was police there was dogs.
KK: this just sounds like, it sounds like Quadrophenia for like hip hop, hip hop Quadrophenia. The whole train is just scattered with people.
DG: No one wanted to talk to us afterwards. We were always like the outcasts of the, the graff world really. We were really we were sort of socially very badly, we had very low skills um is it a background we came from.
KK: yeah, I get it.
DG: and it was just but it was good you know for us it was good it was for me it was my that was my art education that was my kind of schooling and that's where I learned all my skills that had made me, make a living from you know like I've been incredibly lucky and improve that and after all of that, I just you know everything, I learned there and at the time I thought what can I use these skills to do, I didn't, I didn't see how this could benefit me later on in life but you know life has a funny way of showing you the way, if you let it.
KK: Yeah for sure. Back to the housing situation where you will live remains the six the big six lived in the new one apartment there must have been this feeling in your head just like I have I have landed in heaven, what was in that book, has now become, you embodied that shit. And the next thing, no one can touch your you’re in this bubble this is your world now.
DG: I think like most things at the time it wasn't as much fun and it makes for better stories than the reality of actually living it.
KK: Yeah for sure.
DG: the times were quite hard, and I remember one time that the police commissioner of Copenhagen said there's two kinds of graffiti in Denmark there is MOAs crew and then there's the rest.
KK: Oh my God, Oh my God that is fucking sick. And that’s gotta keep you going.
DG: and then he came around to say, that they were that they were sort of more like organized crime gang like the ones in LA. And we were laughing, because we lived with six people living in the snap and opposite the flat there was a fish and chip shop and we couldn't even organize food to go and get chips you know what I mean.
KK: another way, eh? Dude, I mean wow I guess that's crazy the notoriety there. so this became like a regular thing right so you were out getting busy and just you know just word spreads doesn't it like if we when you apply that to like how your careers um developed it would you say that there were some set skills that you apply in that in the context of graffiti that you could you you naturally adapt into modern business or marketing.
DG: well I feel really privileged and lucky because I felt when I came to to tattooing, I did it quite 16 or 17 when I built my first tattoo machine but I already gone through one subculture so I saw how you can so learn from the mistakes I made in graffiti and I stayed more true to myself and I knew that if you believed in yourself and you stuck to what what you know and then you can really make a difference within a culture and that's always set out to do with tattooing, when I came to tattooing it was kind of like it was all in the red light district is all CD no one was was really doing anything amazing it was all like Wizards and skulls and and that kind of thing and KK: yeah, yeah, yeah.
DG: and the craftsmanship in tattooing had really gone downhill, there's still some amazing artist around the world but there were far few and far between and and I just thought this this is exactly like, graffiti was was when it first started, you know I mean it was just this kind of amazing art full of history and full of you know potential trip to actually just.
KK: Maximize your, make your mark in it essentially.
DG: yeah exactly, there was no boundaries there's no limits, I think you know one of the great things with these kind of subcultures or art forms is that there are no limits, there really you can wear those this tattooing end, if if someone had told me that 35 years ago that I was going to see what I see today on the skin I would never believe that, that was possible because all you ever heard was you couldn't do this you can't do that, you have to do it this way. and um and that that was the same way with graffiti as well you know you can't do that with spray cans you can only do that and then look look at what they do you know and I think the limits that we had were only up here really in our heads and I think it's just it's just amazing to see how you can actually take an art form or subculture and you can just just be part of it and be part of the change and be part of the history of it.
KK: when do you think when you cos there are there are moments in all subcultures but but where they go from this underground almost threat to society kinda thing that you know whether it's Little Richard flying his piano mad or or Public Enemy like revolutionizing the spoken word, how grime music and dubstep taking on the technology and raising the nasty bar but, graff and tattooing they they've always been the underdog do you think technology has allowed that thing too really pushed the umbrella, so it’s almost site so much more acceptable.
DG: yeah I mean it's it's gone crazy because like like when I first started doing graffiti say that I used to do graffiti when it was illegal because we used to get chased around when I finally moved to London used to get chased around Shoreditch and you know we had all these business owners called the police on us and stuff and then now the same business owners are calling us up to pay as big dollars to go and paint the same wall so you know and we were seen as part of the problem because it was that whole broken window theory where you have broken window if you don't fix it then graffiti will happen, once graffiti is there then crime will start to appear and that was kind of the that was kind of just accepted social kind of approach to government police forces and councils those that if we don't fix it then, this will lead to it. now the poison has become the vaccine you know when they want to re generate an area that want to spice it up, they get the graffiti to come in or now called street artists but it’s the same really.
KK: yeah, yeah, yeah.
DG: you know beautify an area or to try and reduce crime or make it more comfortable for people and that's bonkers you know and it's the same with his tattooing we I remember I couldn't get into any nightclubs you know because my throat was tattooed before it was kind of normal commonplace, I think about three people at their throats done that I knew of in London, we couldn't get it couldn't even get you couldn't rent a flat. No one wanted to rent to you when you had tattoos. It sound bonkers now but it really was that way you couldn't get remember going to restaurants and they be like aw no we got no tables, but restaurants completely empty I couldn't get into any nightclubs it was ridiculous. there's no way my mates didn't even want to go with me. because it was like there was no way I was getting in unless on a list and and then a few years later after the programs and that the same night clubs are calling you up and ask you to make an appearance and they will pay for you to go and it’s just bonkers. it's such a, and its transition is just so mad and it's like now there will be occasions where if you go into a meeting and you have full sleeves you'll be more had an advantage because people think you're creative or take you more seriously you know.
KK: Open minded.
DG: but if you showed your tattoos you never get a chance of getting that employment, so it's it's huge um and of course that kind of thing really affects the it really affects the kind of effects the graffiti of the subculture effects everything around it is the same rap music once you stop being the kind of outrage and there I guess part of the problem then there is some of the magic gone I must admit but there's so many other benefits from it you know we all making a good living of it
KK: true
DG: and really deep down inside didn't we kind of all fight for it to be accepted you know I mean.
KK: I can't tell I honestly can't tell, the same thing applies to music I mean there was a time where pirate radio stations literally meant, you were a pirate on a boat for pirate radio Nowadays it's almost like this cool kitsch thing and I just you know music’s lost his edge in danger as well I think but I but I wonder if the new danger is what's the new danger what's the thing that's out there was the underdog wants to outlaw thing.
DG: Yeah I mean I don't know I think I think anything new is always the danger isn't it, I think people hate change and is scared of this scared of anything they're not they're not familiar with but, I I suppose with tattooing is it's a weird one because you can't really shock anymore with having tattoo I guess in some sense we always we always put on the tattoos early on because we wanted to show that we weren't part of society, we weren't part of that kind of nice you know what. I mean.
KK: even more clashing with hip hop with the tattoos because clashing with the graff and the more cartooesque, the illustrative and I just the stuff that you do bro is fire. and like it's still got a classic content but I totally feel the energy back back then and we're not talking too far ago it felt like there was an added extra fuck you to the to the recipe because you're taking what rockers and people like that were doing and then just flipping it on its head and then that's what made it almost cultural relevance came in again.
DG: yeah and that’s what I’ve always found the irony really is that in all of these subcultures that are meant to be where everyone's an anarchist and it's all you know two fingers up to society and rules I always found it was far too many rules for me so even when I went into tattooing which was meant to be this kind of rebel art form that you know when I started doing my graffiti stuff that people said you can't do that and it was really rocking but I mean it's like to the the point some people you wanted to beat me up for other people said they just wouldn't even have anything to do with me or give us. like it's crazy because people always scared or something you know they don't they don't like it when you try and change the way things are and it was even the same with one of the things that I always really rub me up the wrong way with graffiti artist would get upset about when the pieces got painted over because I can't believe they can't see the irony an art form is meant to be completely and anaritstic and we go in and we don't get permission to paint something and then they get pissed off because someone else paint over it you know what I mean.
KK: yeah yeah.
DG: Its ridiculous I find I find the whole concept bizarre.
KK: No no that’s a really good point.
DG: but I guess there's just so many rules within these things and that was that was something that I always struggled in and still still struggle with I don't really want to play by these kind of rules that I haven’t really agreed to and people seem to think you know.
KK: it starts eating into itself doesn’t it.
DG: yeah, I mean I think hip hop in particularly just probably one of the most self-destructive subcultures I've ever known.
KK: 100 percent.
DG: you know yourself is it's like as soon as something is a success people like well he a sell-out I’m not going to listen to that anymore and it's like well what you making music cause you don't want people to listen to so people were having these fine balance of trying to keeping it real which meant they couldn't really make anything it was ridiculous.
KK: yeah yeah and its only gets, or it has got worse because now the beef that people have social mix the beef in social media I think about Tekashi 6ix9ine in that whole thing it's been we’ve almost forgotten about him now you know if you ever like your worst day in your whole life working life you can rest assured that if you really think back Tim Westwood’s been shot stabbed at some point in his career just because.
DG: Aw, I'm gonna tell you a little story remember when KRS-one ripped into him?
KK: Do you remember that, yeah?
DG: yeah, I was in the hotel room when KRS-one.
KK: Stop it.
DG: no no word of a lie I was hanging out with KRS-one that day and he wanted me to tattoo him and he was with this kid um.
KK: He’s his DJ now, yeah.
DG: yeah, he was a little shit. he came around and he just walked cos he knew he was KRS-one just punch them some of the journalists and no one could do anything but I was hanging out with KRS-one that day and I was sat there and I was like Oh my God I actually felt sorry Westwood, I must admit.
KK: He got absolutely rinsed.
DG: Aw man that was brutal.
KK: brutal.
DG: I think that was like a turning point of Tim Westwood, he really kind of disowned the the UK scene even more and then as soon as grime came along, he was like wow check this out, I’m gonna endorse all of this and fuck you guys.
DG :yeah yeah, no it's, it's, it's, it's a tough one isn't it because I guess there was always that kind of mistrust to anyone in the establishment who were like Westwood is seen as the establishment he was in bed with BBC Radio 1 so there's this kind of mistrust is he just using it there's always say it was always question about his background, where he came from.
KK: Yeah, yeah totally.
DG: I don’t think that matters, if you’re into hip hop, you’re into hip hop, you know it doesn't matter where you come from, I just happened to come from a housing estate. He doesn’t he comes from a nice village but, it doesn’t make him any less hip-hop than I was you know I mean it's ridiculous but it’s.
KK: I think it’s where your heart is and where your head is at. It’s your contributive attitude. You’ve always had a contributive attitude. Its’ never been like to my understanding, of course you know and how it's been translated is you want, you’ve always come across to me as someone who is contributing to a culture rather than your that dude just wants to binge purge and get the fuck out , do you know what I mean.
DG: I think one thing that MOAS taught me was that the culture is so much bigger than any individual and that was one thing that we always said we always put the crew up first it wasn't about who I was or one of the greatest things was to have that kind of fame without anyone knowing who you were that was amazing because it was like I always envy those artists who wear a balaclava or Banksy or Rammstein or whatever and you know kiss, where you could be walking down the street you could be there and still walk down the street and one thing that is great is you could be standing on the tube station and people talk about the crew would just be right next to no one knew it was you, you know what I mean. but it taught me that it's not about you, the culture is so much bigger all you are is Link in the chain and it's your job to be the strongest link possible because it doesn't matter how big are chain is it's only as strong as the weakest link so I didn't want to be that generation that let hip hop or graffiti or tattooing down, you know what I mean I wanted to be part of something where you look back many years to come when, when long after I've gone you think that generation not me but that generation as a collective really push things forward they really loved it, embraced it and and it was like you could be part of the scene you know one of the things I always tried with my shots in the early days let's bring let's make London that the epicenter of greater tattooing and it was and everyone was in on it no one was you know like there's no beef between shops everyone was just like almost like a collective force we went when we went to conventions around the world it's like you were representing you know the London tattoo scene which had a huge history and everyone was kind of in the same boat and see someone over there and someone over there was from London as well and will be in San Francisco representing it and people would talk about the scene you know what I mean and that was the same with Copenhagen. And Copenhagen style from the 90s became a thing all over Europe you know I mean they were even talking about it in New York and it was like what? you know what I mean. Yeah, we were on the front cover of New York Times, mind you the headline was euro trash.
KK: Yeah yeah. Bro it just feels like your egoless, you know and I’m sure I'm sure this is cause I understand it as being an age thing on my part but again if your head is still in the right place you do realize that you’ve been egoless all along, it just then you’ve been fighting against a tide of what is expected of you.
DG: yeah yeah. It is it’s a tough one isn’t it. You do, you do lose your way sometimes and there was I remember Mins who kind of created MOAS to have a little weird with me because you know, I sneakily put my own tag on a whole car because I was like, and he was like what are you doing?? What about the crew? And I’m like I'm sorry but you know there’s times, where you do look at things and and and you sort of figure maybe I should have I don't know, but you know I think for me it was more important to be part of something and just being hard there you know like like part of the history and it was always very important I think to part of, you know part of the kind of legacy not for personal gratitude or just because it's almost our responsibility you know I mean as an artist you have if you if you come into this world as an artist’s when you're gifted with something but I feel drive or just amazing at something I think it's your responsibility to make the most of that and inspire others like you say I think it was one of the main responsibility is to inspire and train and educate the next generation and that's your most important thing in that that's only come like that realization stern coming later in life where I realized that my most important job is to teach people what I've learned and what other people taught me.
KK: yeah for real.
DG: If don't do that I don't fulfill my duty in this industry or in this subculture and I think it's not really about the individual person you know but there will be legends you know there will be legends all the way down the line and people who change game changes in graffiti artist who totally changed it but you don't see people like Seen, or all of those guys future a and all of those guys you don't see them as individuals you see them as part of a scene.
KK: Yeah 100 percent.
DG: same with the music industry. Gang Starr and guru and earlier on you have run DMC, Beastie Boys yeah although their individuals their music in their art form and their creations fit within a scene.
KK: totally.
DG: and as a force they are you know they're part of that and I think that is important there.
KK: that's right and when you think about those, that era I mean again hip-hop so most throwaway thing of all but there is that Golden era that that just I know there's a when I think about individuals from that time like to say there's more of a collective thing is more than atmosphere is like a landscape of local people that falls in an emotion cycle yeah like because they did that Beastie Boys were punk and skateboards and then there was the Paracyde they were like this and public it was.
DG: And there was totally that scene in London as well you know with the whole Kung Fu Camden and you know like task force and all of that kind of stuff and it was it was a scene seem you know there's individuals you can pick from that but but you still see it as they are still part of the bigger chain, you know.
KK: yeah 100% 100% is crazy I'm already actually just on the UK scene, I wanna say a big rest in peace to EBow from Foreign Beggars who passed away yesterday which is why would be 2 days from when this comes out so rest in peace Ebow, a very good friend of mine as well you know those guys foreign beggars I mean Pavan.
DG: yeah c’mon, it was magical wasn’t it. but I think you know it's it's it's a privilege to be part of that and I think you need to I don't know if you need to but it be nice you only really realize that but hindsight you know when we were in the mist of it all like you said when we all lived together, when we all lived together and you wait let's see we didn't realize that we were creating history if only we did we would have enjoyed it so much more and that's why I was so lucky once I got into tattooing I kinda knew we were creating history you know what I mean I wasn't quite sure about it was a lot like the early days of hip hop so enjoyed it more I took out a duck and I sat back and I never I never stopped like pushing as well you know I mean I was like when I think back to some of the opportunities I had with hip-hop type stuff but was nervous or it wasn't quite as confident but when it came to tattooing you know I was like damn it I'm going to do it all because you only get one opportunity in life and these these doors open up for reason and they don't tend to open up again if you don't take those opportunities.
KK: A thousand percent bro.
DG: so I was going to grab it all with both hands and make the most of it you know it comes at a price and it's funny like we're talking about people who are no longer with us you know there's been a lot of casualties along the way you know like living next to the Max and living it to the fullest it comes at a price and not everyone makes it through.
KK: yeah and I finding that more, I’m finding that a lot more.
DG: yeah mate we've lost so many people is it is tough because it's part of the history list that's gone forever and and that's why it's so important to tell these stories into past and knowledge on because once you're gone no one's going to tell you stories anymore, you know what I mean and if you haven't told him that they're gone forever and they lost and all that all that effort and all that stuff you put in so it's just it's just going to be wasted.
KK: yeah, yeah, yeah, the whole premise of the podcast, my creative output.
DG: Yeah, I think the New York scene is so good at documenting itself I think Americans have always been very good they had documented themselves and I think one of the really sad things about Scandinavian hip hop and especially maybe UK hip-hop has been really bad at at preserving and telling their story because this year in real epic because it was so hard and so real. yeah it was almost like they wouldn't allow anyone to document and if anything that's kind of sad because it gives a lot of I think a lot stuff is gone it's gone and people don't realize that people are into it now don't realize what going before then because we weren't very good at at documenting.
KK: Yeah that’s true.
DG: amazing program that tells the story you know I mean like the Americans are really good at that.
KK: I think from a UK point of view, a village mentality back then. I think that there's a complacency cause everyone now honest themselves and I love doing this For these reasons because people need him the voices out and tell what actually went down and how it went down cause we're not around forever but like you say it's just a shame that it isn't enough it wasn't enough broadcasting celebrating at the time and it just never make sense why America is doing the best you up so you and I don't understand why it's never embraced the same way in the rest of the world.
DG: American is a weird place if you're allowed to tell people how good you are it's been in Europe you're not you know it's not really the one thing you know in America there was always “yeah man I’m really good as this.” Okay.
KK: There was Looptroop wasn’t there? There was loop troop from Scandinavia, right?
DG: yeah.
KK: they were badass. what was the name of the lead rapper… promoe? Promoe from loop troop. I remember touring with those guys. From Scandinavia yeah.
DG: yeah, I mean, Scandinavia is huge man that's what people don't realize is is.
KK: Massive.
DG: I guess it just looked translate very well but yeah, I think hip hop is popular again or places like that. I think when you go to Copenhagen or places like that, Hip hop is still a massive player when it comes to what people are influenced by or how they dress or what they listen to a lot more than it is here really yeah he is still quite sort of subcultural stuff but but there it just in case it was like everyone is just into it you know yeah that's right, totally.
KK: I never had an empty room playing out there. and it was really a real mixture like people didn't like you say subculture like it was genre less people just come because they were fans of the live spectacle and they wanted to know what it was all about.
DG: yeah, yeah no it was it was good it was good it was it was like it was good scene and it still still weighs you know you got you you know quite quite quite scene over there. graffiti still going super strong there the trains are completely covered in.
KK: Mad.
DG: My nephew works he works in the trains and it’s just crazy. every morning he comes in and it’s just covered in graffiti.
KK: do you ever get the itch still? Do you ever get the itch?
DG: Aw man, all the time. The first thing that went through my head with this lockdown Is that there is gonna be a lot of trains laid up. But then it’s just like ah I don’t think like that anymore.
what you are thinking about, just yeah, I and I still I still everyday just look at trainyard and just yeah. I’d love to just have a little yard here where I can just sneak off do a couple of panels and come back, I'd much rather do that, and you go fishing or to the pub or anything like that.
KK: yeah, yeah, it’s in the blood bro.
DG: The reality is I’m a dad and I have responsibilities and yeah.
KK: Yeah, listen we're all in that place I think everyone that comes in here that you know time waits for no one but moving on a little bit cause you know your now in this place where you've got the monsters of art store you know where you have it was crazy because very similar to this whole thing here you have to create your own and then people come before hand it's basically the powers that be know this the thing cannot be in and exhibited thing it cannot have its own store you know I mean you go make it. You’ve only got it made one.
DG: Exactly I remember that I applied for the world Danish Academy of art as well and the art professor there just said categorically graffiti can never be art and you will never have a place here and you will never exhibit any of your art in a Gallery.
KK: Mad.
DG: and I want to thank him because I think more than anything in my life he probably gave me the grit between my teeth to actually become successful and I tried OK it took for me to get my own Gallery to get my art into a gallery.
KK: yeah
DG: There’s no rules man you know. He just said you’ll never get your art into a gallery, so I just thought, I’ll get my own gallery and then you know. at least I’ll get it in there.
KK: Exactly bro.
DG: but The thing is I, I just saw it and it was that kind of tipping point where graffiti street art is just coming in and no one was really making any money but people were super talented and Banksy was clever because everyone started making money off of I because it was the photographers that were making these little pocket books off of our art work and then publishing him and then making money and we were like well we don't get any royalties because it was illegal.
KK: yeah yeah yeah and what was back jumps one, Noles did a back jump one and so did Bates, right? These little pocket books.
DG: Even that we got ripped off.
KK: Really?
DG: yeah, we were just like we weren’t very smart you know what I mean.
KK: there's a lot of coverage in those books as well like I remember seeing him I remember seeing them once and that's how I actually got to know you guys.
DG: right yeah, yeah I mean some of the people are really good some people didn't make money on it but most people made money on the artists. its a lot a lot the same with the New York scene when when they got when they got picked up a lot of them got ripped off and it was not until later they became smart and everybody know what and a few people made it big and make made a lot of money but most people didn't and it was just thought this is wrong you know so I thought I've got so much talent around me why not make our own Gallery and at least the money goes to the right people you know.
KK: Yeah, I love it.
DG: and that that was the whole idea that hold the whole ethos was we would try and help people so they could so they could create a careers, that’s what it was about you know you don't have to stay with us you can make a name then move on and stuff unfortunately you know the reality of it is sometimes it's very hard to help people.
KK: yeah, yeah as in like, helping people but they don't help yourself that sort of thing something.
DG: exactly you know I mean there was a lot of that going on so you know over the years it just got a little bit less of a thing of trying to to do the young artists then help people out you know we still do it still to do it but you know you gotta you gotta you gotta do some work yourself.
KK: because you basically choose the people, it becomes you become their the uh the Conduent you become the thing that I knew that takes a lot of energy man.
DG: but I think one of the things that became very clear is I think that you know hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t want to work.
KK: dude I’m convinced.
DG: I think there's a lot of talented people think that the world owes them a living and then you see and Luckily one of the beautiful things I've seen in the art world which I never thought would be the case but I find the people work the hardest one that the biggest success in the art wold and I was very heartened and I felt really good about that because you see some people and they're not the best, there are people out there that are a lot better. but they work the hardest and they will rise to the top.
KK: yeah that's right, and smarter. Smartness is key as well.
DG: I don’t think people realizes as how hard it is to be a working artists and if you want to make a living out of it you know I get people coming in yet but look at my pictures better than Banksy’s, yeah but he was out every night you know that's what you been doing watching Netflix.
KK: yeah yeah yeah.
DG: that's why his art is worth more than, you know.
KK: do you still hold that, do you still hold that yourself? do you still hold that that passion and drive yourself like Netflix is great example right, right now in lock down it's very easy for us to act like we were kind of on our pensions, right?
DG: exactly.
KK: but, but I I just don't feel comfortable about it.
DG: no. no, I mean I push myself incredibly hard and I push push everyone around me incredibly hard because I guess when you come from nothing you always scared of losing everything.
KK: A thousand percent.
DG: And I’ve always have had this kind of chip on my shoulder and I have this guilt you know where I feel like I don't know man it's like, I don't know so but one of the things that is lockdowns had taught me maybe is that you can take a foot off the pedal now and again which is something I probably haven't done for the last four years.
KK: yeah yeah you smell the smell of Flowers a little bit and say to yourself fuck, like you said about those scenes, that we came from now is forgotten about but we actually need time to uh embraced it and love it and appreciate it.
DG: also I think that um sometimes I'm you know I love, I love my bikes too, love motorcycling and stuff and it's like when you push a motorbike to its Max it's almost like she just ease off the throttle it goes further and I find that sometimes with life more is pushing always pushing always pushing you I mean sometimes I think we just need to back off and let life sorted it out and then opportunities will open up in front of you.
KK: cos there's no there's no other option right now but to go with the flow. Yeah, its mad.
DG: yeah, I know it's I mean you know yourself just trying to organize this before it's like literally.
KK: it’s true.
DG: Every day, every minute, every minute of my life is just mental And I think sometimes just yeah comes a time when you just gotta focus what what what is it actually you're trying to achieve you know what I mean, working yourself into an early grave or you know but that's the drive that you get from hip hop, you get some graffiti you get you don't mean it was always push push push push more more more that was you know I wanted to do more Sleeve tattoos than anyone I wanted to read more batteries are going to do more conventions you know like just 21 conventions in 17 countries, you know what I mean, when we announce like this.
KK: Jesus wow.
DG: you pick up and literally, we use to laugh about, and we would see popstars go on stage, oh Stockholm and then berlin like how it can be so stupid. But, I remember I was I, I was in a nightclub and I turned to mate and I said where are we because dude wearing a nightclub I think yeah I know that, but I wanna go home and I can't remember what country we were in. He’s like dude were in…I can’t remember which country and I said okay then I know what hotel I’m in. It was literally because it was just day in day out, different hotel, these
KK: rotation, rotation rotation.
DG: you don't see anything you know it's the same people your surrounded with, I used to call it was like a traveling circus you know the conventions, occasionally some of the acts of change but you know the main acts will always be the same main characters will be the same and we would just travel around the world and put on the same show night after night after night, well you know it just becomes.
KK: discombobulate.
DG: yeah unless you been in that situation you just can't really believe that that's how how it is but literally and I stepped outside that club I wouldn't have known where to go to unless someone told me you know I remember waking up you just think you put under TV to see what country you're in.
KK: yeah yeah yeah, I get you.
DG: and its always stats at CNN you could be anywhere, aw for fuck sakes.
KK: Big up CNN, yeah totally you know it. Honestly, but you know, this is the time for you to reup you actually don't actually , speaking to writers obviously the biggest question you ask him is how many how many pieces, how many walls, how many trains, it just all merges so I could never have it when you come out the ride you just say it is like this big block of time that just was it was like a mini life.
DG: yeah, I mean I think the problem with MOAS crew was there everyone had you know obsessive compulsive behavior, so it just became bonkers, you know I mean.
KK: yeah, yeah amazing.
DG: when you look at I remember when we were doing the book we literally there was literally I mean even stuff that I didn't know but I was literally boxes and boxes and boxes of pictures it was crazy and that was mainly the other guys that was made a couple of them were really just absolutely, you know I was kind of the character guy and stuff I was brought in when we needed to do something fancy and now is that I always had to tattoo because they started to tattooing quite early and tattoos takes my time away, but those those boys they went bonkers you know it's actually we had just you know everyone wants to shoot the fastest gun man in town you know and we became the target it was always you know whether we wanted it or not it was always kind of like them and us.
KK: yeah yeah.
DG: I said so so you know rather than being part of the scene and we became our own little thing and then we became something that people didn't like and then people were making up stories that weren't true about us and stuff and and you know jealousy and stuff and it was just yea it was bonkers.
KK: they gotta you hate first bro, you gotta make you gotta make them hate before they love you.
DG: I always say if you don't have haters you're not doing it right, because you're not and I generally believe that I think that you know one of the hardest things was appearing on TV and having that TV show because I wasn't prepared for the amount of hate people and I think we were kind of like quite early on you know this kind of liked rolling wasn't a thing back then as much or at least people weren't really aware of it so yeah that's right people these reality shows and stuff we really got it and I was really unprepared for.
KK: How did that hit you? Did it hit you quite hard when people start talking shit, I mean actually know what I can't even I don't even remember, all I had was my admiration in fact you had it but like you say you've got to have the ying and the yang, and I’m sure it came from both barrels.
DG: The thing is, I got all the love from the public but I got hate from the industry you know and again it was like I almost became the Tim Westwood of tattooing because I was one of the people that were bringing it to the mainstream and there was a lot of people in the industry who said that they did they wanted to keep it real and they wanted to keep underground but every single one of them I know applied to be on the program, so they would just cheesed off that it wasn't them and then it's like that thing where Miami ink guys and LA ink guys and we got it bad because then people were like well how come my mate is not on it because he's a better tattooer and people didn't realize it wasn't about having the best tattooist on it, it was about making an interesting show and LA ink they tried to bring on some of the best they bought Nikko Hurtado arguably one of or was at the time one of the best tattooist in the world but he was boring as hell but, you know he’s super good but, you needed the drama as well because it was a duckie soap and without dramas the program is going to be boring so what people didn't realize it was that it wasn't about being the best artist, it was about being the most interesting and telling a story, you know.
KK: Yeah, yeah and setting a platform of like that makes it inspire for people too.
DG: You know I think, that why it was misunderstood. people understand it more now because they got YouTube and who do watch don't watch the best mechanic you watch the funniest guy. You don’t watch, you know the people who are really good at what they do are sometimes quite boring, that's not entertainment, you know that then look at their pictures or listen to the music, but but some of the people who you know I just really good at being entertaining and really entertaining to watch and I think that there's a better general understanding of that now, but at the time it was only tattoo program in Europe, so they people were like yeah you know you you know, the hate was crazy you know like I'd open up my my inbox and people would be like if I see you I'm going to slap you, or you know when you meet people, they just go “hello.”
KK: wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Aw it mad.
DG: It’s easy to be very brave behind a keyboard you know.
KK: yeah back it, was very much that was very you know, what it called, they call it, keyboard warriors.
DG: yeah yeah, I mean even to do this day, if you do YouTube you don’t really want to read the comments. You know but, I quite enjoy, I felt like a lot more confident in what I do now at the time you know I did not ask for the fame, I was just thrown into it and listen like overnight, my life changed and people don't realize now, because it seems crazy but it was a big thing back then from one day I was just I just had my little shop down on catty road in Kings cross and then the next day I was like on the red carpet of some premieres in the West end hanging out with you know like a list people and stuff and and you know, I signed autographs and everywhere I went people wanted photos I wasn't prepared for.
KK: Madness. Madness how that happened.
DG: Yeah and I remember I couldn’t even get the tube into work. It was really awkward, especially people from Europe, they come over oh yeah I see your program, can I have a picture and then it would be that awkward moment, I wish I was a bit better at this, or I wish I would crack a joke but, I was really awkward and..
KK: Crazy.
DG: So, I stopped, and I was just like I need to get away from this, so I went to Mexico And I didn't realize it was to show was huge in Mexico.
KK: no way.
DG: Yeah, I couldn’t step out of my hotel and they would go, London, London. Risky business. I love you. And I’d go.
KK: Beatles mania.
DG: This was like I can’t get away from it.
KK: That’s amazing.
DG: yeah yeah.
KK: Beatles mania on you.
DG: it was bonkers you know, now I miss it.
KK: yeah yeah, It’s the irony isn’t it. It’s the irony, you know. Crazy
DG: You know it’s a weird one, it’s a double-edged sword but its, I’ll be honest with you, that kind of attention is addictive.
KK: yeah, I can imagine so. yeah.
DG: there’s a lot of opportunities though so I will always be grateful for it.
KK: You know I mean you know you know it's classic like no bad publicity, it’s all good. Regardless. It feels like a lifetime ago but, I know what you mean. When I think of Dan Gold I think of like loads of chapters and I think of like the current chapter it's actually hard to go back into like what that was back then, you know like I can't imagine what it must be for you that time there was like so much going on with that new form of entertainment. The precursor, you know, um Love Island and um all the other ink that are out there now in the world, you know.
DG: yes I mean it was bonkers you know and it was but The funny thing was I guess it's always the case you probably find that as well with music like in LA people hated LA ink but everyone around the world love it, in Miami people love it but everywhere else people travelled from the UK to Miami to get tattooed and it was the same for us, we were much bigger in Europe and um and then then we were here, here we just kind of got hate really.
KK: that’s brits for you though.
DG: I was kind of the underdog, so people were cool with me but yeah still.
KK: Yeah, you were kind of the more edgier character, like that was the depiction, like sketch for tattoo fixer, he has this kind of, he had this demur about him, now you can either you’re targeted but at the same time if your cool, you gotta be cool to be cool aint ya.
DG: yeah, and me and Sketch we talked a lot about it cos he got so much hate, when that started out and he went through that same thing, where he said he was the new kid new program and then he was like oh he's so fucking you know so last year and then his nose a classic and now he's accepted. Cos, he stuck with it. But you know we talked a lot about it.
And you know he had a rough time because that show blew up as well, people loved it. Then when it became really popular, all the cool kids were like oh that show is so lame. And then he got a lot of hate, so now people are like yeah it’s still cool, and they are really good but we talked a lot about that he was struggling with some of the hate he got as well because, is it gets loud and it gets super personal you know. and the thing is I don't care what anyone says but we've all got weak points and we’ve all got days where we don’t feel as confident.
KK: yeah yeah.
DG: one of those one of those punches are just going to go through and hit you and sometimes maybe knock you out because you know they are relentless just keep coming, they keep coming they keep coming, day after day you defend them up but, sooner or later one is gonna hit, and then you feel it you know.
KK: yeah of course, kick in your armor.
DG: We had a few, a couple of heart to hearts me and him. And I told him you know to have haters I think you have to take it as a compliment. Because it means you are enough of a threat to other people, so they feel bad about themselves you gotta understand when people project hate to you what they really showing is their own weaknesses. so, people will always go there there their kind of um ridicule of you will always come from one of their own weak points.
KK: Ooh that’s cold.
DG: and what you see it like that but that takes a very mature and you can't teach that to a young person because you could say that all day long to someone who get bullied in school look the bullies are actually the insecure ones and the reason that why they're bulling you is because you are generating some kind of confidence that they feel very insecure about.
KK: yeah, that’s right.
DG: but as you get older though, I get a bit of the stuff if I don’t have haters because I’m not really doing it right cause I’m not really making the moves that are bothering any people you know. The worse thing is if people aren’t talking about you. If People aren’t talk about you.
KK: and your just like, do you like this? Do you like this?
DG: Yeah yeah if you think about anything that’s changed the world, people have always hating on it Beastie Boys, N.W.A, anything that changed it when they first came out people who is this is too much yeah if you're not if you're not actually rattling a few feathers then you are not changing anything you're not making progress, you just just reheating old stuff you know.
KK: but also, though, also though I feel like you've got to scare yourself as well.
DG: Oh yeah.
KK: Do you know what I mean? like you gotta be like whether it's going out and doing it whole car or going out in on the red carpet or getting the hate from people to the NTH degree we have to worry about your family or you know doing that piece on a body of a piece of art and your like fuck oh no, you've got to scare yourself you've got to take it to that level because once you've shown that your once you show your commitment and your determination and people resonates as a piece of art or an action I think that's the only place.
DG: like doing this that's gotta be scary at some level because they’ll be critics that will hang onto every word your saying and you are representing a culture that everyone feels ownership of you know what I mean.
KK: yeah, yeah, yeah.
DG: your chatting shit or I mean in a sense we are the Westwood’s now.
KK: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah totally dude. You’ve been reading my diary again haven’t you.
DG: But doing this is scary because you are opening yourself up to abuse.
KK: but you gotta go for it.
DG: you gotta go for it. And the thing is, you can't change who you are you can't change, and thing I always say to people, is the thing I learned from going from a nobody to all of a sudden being in the limelight and being famous and then going back to nobody is the same amount of people the same percentage they’re be percentage of people who will love you know you super fans they love you and they really do love you and it'll be a percentage of people who hate you and they will always hate you and then the main amount of people they don't actually care about you wouldn't give it a toss about you and that percentage stays the same but the amount in each percentage goes up when you go on TV but this the same percentage just stayed the same you know I mean.
KK: yeah, yeah. and then once you accept that it's like why why should everyone like you know that's not how the world works you know you don't walk into a room and there will always be people who just don't like it for some reason the people who love you and most people are too busy think about themselves to even, they are more worried about what you think of them.
KK: yeah, yeah totally totally all the time that that was definitely you know 5 six years ago attitude but then there is this this this thing comes around where you just like OK I if you think you deserve this thing why do you deserve this thing and again it goes back to your work principles of like just work harder just say yes just be it be present.
DG: but also, I think, the beautiful thing about hip hop is if it doesn’t exist, create it. that's the real beauty of something. It’s like you, if this media doesn’t exist so I’ll create it there isn't a platform, so you created it.
KK: it’s the same with music.
DG:I mean it wasn't there wasn't a gallery of the tattoo studio that I want it wasn't there so I created so no one in the industry are scared of creating stuff, look at look at the graffiti stores look at all these writers who have made you know selling paint or creating these big. One thing that hip hop is really good at is creative things you know what I mean.
KK: yeah 100%.
DG: and and you know we create our own Kurtz cause they were we created then we create own hip hop shops cause they didn't exist before hand so in order to have it create own gallery's, our own tattoo shops that do graffiti notice to do it we had to create and that's what we still doing and that's no one’s no one scared of it and and and that's what's so amazing about this this whole culture in this whole thing you know you know, the haters will hate but that's just their problem innit.
KK:100% and listen before before we really do pull up I I just want to get into what you're making at the moment on Instagram with these pieces these framed pieces of their televisions there fucking sick bro, it’s fire. what's the process I mean these things they surpass like when you watch you doing them I'm just like yeah this is the fiddlers fucking you better put a price on these ones bro. It’s amazing.
DG: That the great thing, is that I can’t stop creating them, always had these ideas and these these visions of how art could could be or should be and and and the TV was it came from that Jill Scott song the revolution will not be televised. I used to play over and over again.
KK: fire.
DG: you know I mean.
KK: fire.
DG: actually all of my artwork is, all my artwork so it has a um a song that is connected to it so every piece of artwork is is is connected to a song that means a lot to me and lock myself away in this studio and I'll just listen to it over and over again and just got home just like yeah revolution will not be televised and that is just just had this vision of this TV flashing and I'm an old school TV's I think in the past now right so so that's that's something that the kids will never realize.
KK: that they were framed piece. how many have you made?
DG: Aw mate, I don't even want to know. problem is the problem is this is this is this is where I really shoot myself in the foot because there's so much work involved in it and I always keep the price down because this is the kind of, I don't know the working class playing thing in my head I I feel like I need to work for the money that people give me to justify my own head but also I feel like that art should be available to everyone and what I hate is when people come from the same background as I do and then they they go snotty and then they will want millions for their stuff and then the people who support them in the first place can't afford to be part of it so one way or another, I always want my heart to be accessible to people who doesn't necessarily have a lot of money but I don't want to dumb it down and make it cheap so I always feel like I need to put some work in there so that everyone gets so even under Prints i had finished them with Monto paint and so every piece is individuals even if you buy one of my cheapest prints it's it's all gone through and I painted it and every single one is slightly different you know, what I mean.
KK: It’s sick.
DG: it's just felt that way there was one of the things I really cheesed me off when I was younger is like why is art only accessible to people that a lot of money. I know it's a commodity I know it's part of trading and it's just like any old thing that people need because they need to move money around and stuff but I always wanted good art to be available to everyone and I feel that that it shouldn't, it shouldn't and that's why I love about things like Banksy and stuff like that and then they go for hundreds of thousands, the original ones were always £150 and everyone can be part of that, you know I mean.
KK: yeah, yeah.
DG: just gotta be quick and I love the idea of that I love I love a raffle rather than an auction.
KK:100 percent.
DG: because an auction, it's just rich people would do it, but a raffle someone who necessarily hasn't got enough money to buy it will end up with an amazing piece and I just think it shouldn't be, everyone should have access to good art.
KK: 100 percent.
DG: that not everyone will appreciate it but, but the people would do should should have it and I don't know if mine is good art but, that's for people to judge.
KK: yeah totally.
DG: if it even is art, I dunno. What the hell is art? but I like it I've always done this. that I paint what I want on my own wall, and I tattoo what I want on my own skin and that has stood me you know I've never had a day where I haven't had a client to fill or I never had a day where I haven't had someone who wants some art, you know what I mean.
KK: Oh, that's fire.
DG: I think if you could if you go by that simple rule.
KK: you’re you know you’re just gonna win you're just gonna win.
DG: yeah you can't you can't go wrong.
KK: I love that sentiment and it totally that that can be transferred exactly to what I'm doing with this thing you know everything that I would want you know what I mean. you could like you say you can't go wrong if it's something that is a missing or be totally in tune with your instinct.
DG: and you can't fake it if you came from the wrong angle on this, it feels so wrong because it's like this just feels like a product with passion you know I mean.
KK: yeah yeah, the energy.
DG: and that's why I wanna be part of it, but if you if you try to, try to and create something I did it once, I made one exhibition and it was all about skulls And I did it SoHo, at iron maiden’s hotel.
KK: I remember this. Yeah, I remember this.
DG: I just watched the Exit of the gift shop and then I thought man I could do this. we worked day and night on these skulls I’m so passionate about it every skull w was something I wanted more and they sold out this easy so I did the same again without the passion they were literally the same thing and I didn’t sell a single thing, people say straight through it and that, that taught me a lesson, that that taught me a lesson, that told me that you can't fake it for some weird reason people will see straight through. You see with artist with music make one album, 10 years of passion pented up and song writing and they wanted storytelling and then they get success and they want to make some money to make a second album and it's heartless, soulless even though it sounds the same, you see straight through it.
KK: that's right you know actually as you were saying it and I don't know Ricky Gervias right but when he went and did those hosted those Movie Awards um there was there's that transitional period with him and I think it came with the animals and the extras and the all those other programs that he made I think the office was like like you say that 10 years of pent up and then as soon as he made it, the comedy took a sideline these presenting hosting shows came in where he was talking to a lot of Hollywood a listers and he, he played to them not not in not in a friendly way he started attacking them and being a bit and then he lost his charm.
DG: Totally.
KK: and I think that was his Simon Pegg as well when he did the those zombie films you could tell that was just pure passion you know what I mean, and frustration why people haven’t made and then they made it to Hollywood and they make that alien film Paul, and I think it's very easy to lose yourself when you have a bit of success. I think it's um I think it's forgivable as well because I think that it happens to everyone you know and I think that we all knew it with our favorite artist you know there's there's a couple of albums where you think you know it you know but I think it's a nice it's really important to to put it back and I think the people who stayed true and don't really focus on that, just focus just OK what is that drive that kept you going, what is that fire in your belly death that woke you up every morning when you were young what is it that keeps you awake at night you know.
KK: I love it.
DG: you know that fire, that one and then you know what don't don't worry about it people like it or not because it's it's it's true it's honest and it won't be enough people out there to market then you know it's but it yes it's tough man you know and also you got you know you got a lot of when you get a bit of success you got a lot of people then all of a sudden trying to influence you and telling you things and You know it's hard not to believe some of that you know it's hard to stay focused and not lose your yourself and try and be something that you are not and I think that's what happened Ricky Gervais and those people they go to Hollywood, it’s a tough old place man, you know what I mean.
KK: yeah man.
DG: there's a lot of there's a lot of people to to sort of look up to and it's quite easy to lose your soul and to feel small and stuff but yeah it's yeah it's a tough is a tough one but I think everyone who has that drive knows that what I'm talking about that that's fire your belly you know it keeps you awake at night it wakes you up in the morning it drives you know you'll be entered be on the bus and you have to get off and write something down or it's not it's not an option it's just something's inside of you that you don't have a choice, you just have to deal with one way, and as an artists I self-destructive and end up in a bad way because it can be it's a big thing to live with constantly you know that and it drives everyone around you crazy and it drives yourself crazy as well because it's it's you you don't you don't have an option you don't have you have that drive and it just got it.
KK: Bro that’s the truth.
DG: and I think you see a lot of really talented people there just it it almost consumes them you know if you're not careful and I think that's why this break is quite healthy for everyone because won’t call it a break, it’s a lockdown. It’s a pandemic is not a break, but I think the world just needed to which is needed to push that pause button for a little bit and.
KK: yeah, I agree.
DG: and I think I think it's it's healthy to just take stock yeah what we're doing and maybe more importantly why we're doing it.
KK: yeah, I agree I agree it's a very very special and important time right now.
DG: yeah, for sure this is a you know like I think a lot of generations go through we've been very lucky you know you have up you know like your grandparents having to go to war and you know my granddad was like Spitfire pilot and it's like it doesn't really hit home then until you have tens of thousands of people dying around you in anything yes this is this is this this is this is real this is our Dunkirk you know.
KK: yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the closest comparable.
DG:I remember having to go into the stop, knoxy street sitting on the tube, I know I knew it was dangerous there was before people because we know a lot about cross contamination in the industry in, it was before and I thought this isn't safe and I'm risking my life going in and I had to do it have no option that you know 10 people would relying on me opening up for their living and the well-being of their family and I just thought this this this is what it feels like going into a warzone also you could contract something that could that could kill you.
KK: yeah mad. and it's never it's never been like this before.
DG: we've never experienced it before, we’ve always had something that was a cure or there’s always someone who comes and saves us so you know I mean I was always once removed there is war or famine but it's never here now it’s here, it's outside, it's madness it's crazy.
KK: the movies the movies are here, the real, the real thing is here, but it's not dress up this is the real thing now.
DG: yeah, it's a scary movie as well. I don't even like Horror movies.
KK: well it's been a pleasure dan, it’s been a pleasure brother.
DG: yeah man thank you very much.
KK: What a fucking star.
DG: I feel like this is part of a of an educational segue that comes with being quarantined every one of these is just like so like it's a lesson within a lesson you know what I mean. yeah yeah and then all we have is each other’s and And I think that's become more apparent now and we all will one you know.
KK: For real.
DG: that's the thing, so hopefully will the people who make it will come up at the people on the other end and unfortunately few people there will make won’t make it. That’s the you know, the reality.
KK: For real. stay healthy people that's the key to everything right now. Stay safe, stay locked in and be creative, I think be creative, do things you weren't meant to do. or couldn’t do, couldn't normally do. do it.
DG: Do it. You only get one life, there is no dress rehearsal.
KK: Exactly, yeah, you only get one life, and on that note. A man of many mini life’s thanks you very much Dan Gold for joining us today bro.
DG: cheers man, Appreciate it.
KK: Total Don, I’ll put all your links in the bio and everything man. you don't know now you know the mighty Dan Gold, MOAs, dangled tattoos this is the Killa Kela podcast, thank you for joining us stay locked in, subscribe, wherever you may be, do not sleep on me I repeat do not sleep on my repeat. you stay lucky people peace.
DG: peace.