KKPC #163 PEZ
“ I was one of the only people who were making flyers full-time, as a lifestyle, as a living.”
Todays podcast is exceptional by anyone’s standards, and I’m extremely excited.. Today we step into a forgotten art that helped define not only a genre of music for a generation, but inspired countless Graffiti writers, music artists, DJ's, club ravers, graphic designers and more... and it all orbits around a very VERY small chosen few, who made the early flyers of the 90’s rave scene. PEZ is that man who took inspiration of Graffiti and created a visual backdrop for an entire genre; he pioneered and created the Rave flyers we knew/know, whilst pushing graphic design commercially before there were computers available to replicate. Nothing else had ever come before this, this is PEZ’s Podcast. Get ready for some amazing stories. Documenting the Graffiti Artists of History past, before their critical acclaims and contributions to the urban arts. Disclaimer: This presentation is for documentation and educational purposes only. No hard drive copies, footage or records of any interviews are held by Killa Kela and once uploaded to the outlets listed below, those are the only records in existence. Any illegal activity discussed is neither encouraged, supported or incited.
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KILLA KELA: Good morning ladies and gentlemen, it's a fine spring getting into summer situation and we of course in in times like these one to one, one on one, and on the other end we have for your street culture feed, morning feed a guy arguably and I'm confident in saying, probably was the aesthetic to your 90s childhood of rave culture. He most certainly was a pioneer in creating the backdrop the visual to what we know as
90s rave he goes by the name of Pez London, how are you brother?
PEZ: Yeah, yeah, like you say It's hot, it’s hot today but were here in our deepest, darkest secret location town. Yeah, just chilling, yeah excited to tell some stories.
KK: Yeah bro, hey listen secret locations and what these are the street culture types are about so you're in you're in good company my G. Look, you know the stories is what people are gonna be wanting, for real like that it's very rare where it has been up till now rare to meet somebody which I genuinely feel like you're one of the candidates where the buck stops as far as technical drawing and street, this quote-unquote street art for a whole generation of of music which I don't think people realized how influential that look was at the time you know I'm saying.
PEZ: Yeah I mean there was a look that was I ,when you're into the mid nineties they're kind of established. Okay that's what a flyer looks right, like but the early days early
nineties, late eighties all bets were off, it could be you know any kind of style would work and it's not until people got into that dreamy kind of you know Pez sort of spacey flyer that was that became synonymous with like dance music culture.
KK: It changed the whole thing man, like to think about it now and how much well first of all the attention to detail in those flyers. I mean, I, you know, we've spoken a couple of
times and, and back and forth on text and you you're very quick to, to emphasize that a lot of what you did on them flyers, them early rave Flyers was done by hand there was no computer graphics.
PEZ: Yeah, there is no computer graphics in a Pez, the only time a computer ever got involved was when we got to like Helter Skelter flyer, into the millennium like the late nineties when I'd paint say six or seven paintings which were then the main front would always be one picture but if there was other things to be dropped in, they'd have to pay me separately and then someone else would bring them in and like you know make the flyer complete, but certainly like the Helter Skelter flyers at the end they took about a month to paint so they weren't just like okay Friday night let's bang out a flyer and it was the commitment yeah.
KK: That's madness, see the levels on that is crazy and I think I said this to the other day right because obviously there is a graffiti upbringing that you you came up through and and we're definitely gonna get into that, but when I, when I said to you the other day I was like, yo like when I was a kid and I, I used to see the Flyers it was the same feeling I'd get when I'd see an Iron Maiden cover and I'd see Eddie it's like you automatically know that what you're gonna get behind that the picture. Its exactly what it says on the tin you know what I mean.
PEZ: For that that was the shop window right, so you knew you know you're looking at this this is okay this is this level flyer right with this kind of style then was gonna be that level party but you know not just me if you had other kind of flyers you knew that, that was you know Fantasia had a flyer and it had an image on it you knew that was going to be good flyer, rain dance had it you know there's gonna be a level of production and you know these people gonna be there was going to be that kind of party right same as you know the beginning your sunrise but you knew no we know what's happening there and so but that that was the thing that separate you know the house music and the scene from it everything else that was our thing, right we kind of took over like flyer art has given many, many, many people the opportunity to put their work out there, well even if they did one flyer but now you all these years old, I did the flyer for X you know that's your little claim to you know your youth right there because you may have had 250,000 then pick it up and everyone saw so and that's how a lot of them were so, someone might put on a party, it might was a designer or you know he worked in print or something to design the flyer but fortunately from one of the only people that did it full-time for a living as a lifestyle, that I was going to the parties I was attending the parties, I was doing the stage sets for the parties, like going home after that weekend, you know
sleeping off a little bit and maybe Tuesday getting up a start painting and then and go again the weekend it's just that was kind of went on for a few years
KK: Wow, that fuckin mad that's that's crazy to think that you were you're like that was like a tour mentality that's a DJ lifestyle.
PEZ: We were just living it and it was any excuse not to get a real job but.
KK: I think that still applies to a lot of ravers now as well. We, we spoke now let's just let's just back up a little bit here because too many of you you know that come from a different place entirely, you know not from the UK, you won't be familiar with the kind of ground works that these you know characters like Pez enabled in the flyer world. I guess the closest comparable is like you know I think that every scene has their flyers but but there's something about this and and and it was an inclusive vibe, an inclusive look that that happened within rave culture and it's spread like I had mates anyway you know I was on the fringes of the outro of Rave, you know. I was more, I was more into hip hop and things like that but my mates who are a little older they were well entrenched in it and I remember going out to their houses and seeing nothing but these flyers on walls as if it's like their, their medals like it's their medals they won that shit by going to the rave you know and and the same with the mixtapes they used to fold the cards I had a couple of them as well you know Shy FX and Ratty and Rat Pack and all that you know nothing crazy how it filtered into you know your your daily conscience you know what I'm saying.
PEZ: For me looking back at it now there were two sets of people right, so there were the people who were actually going to the parties, that were of age and they were like having a good time, yeah. Like a party more about actually going to the party right so expected as much at the time by the flyer making when they are coming out of party they would be like yeah you know, wow Pez, what have you're done this week. But the people that were probably more loyal to the art were the younger generation we just underneath them they couldn't go out yet but when the record shops with nationwide, they can go to the record shop, they could get the Flyers, the bomber jacket, the tape pack, I like kind of being that as if they're there but they're not there yet because they are fifteen or whatever, but they would be studying the scene so much more you know. You know we said we're going to go into hip-hop thing but that the way I got say, Subway Art and I was studying the hip hop in New York I couldn't go and do it for I was at fifteen and I was thinking what is this, they said I would be so into their art and looking and know more about something know more about my flyers than me like because they just this has been their world collecting, them sticking them on their wall and whatever so they were much more loyal, so when they come of age and they could go out but few years later there was so much more involved in all of it as opposed to other people that just were stumbling into it may be back in like 1990, 91 and a bit later on they lived it. It was like in their in their blood, in their skin already there was, I can't wait to get out you know so they yeah there's two two sets of that Pez artwork admired if you like.
KK: Do you do you cross paths with them every so often like it seems to me like your um your Instagram and your socials are very heavily, there's a heavy presence of early adopters and influences people that you know. I mean like if you know, you know, you know .
PEZ: I mean I mean the thing is now there's a very you know there's been quite a lot of interest at least from like fashion designers and and you know I get to think the Coach last year and and you know that was spread all over like East London, Shoreditch and stuff on billboards and things. So there is an interest in looking back at that so when I was growing up so you look back at the 60s and what happened with with the beat was all that kind of area of flower powers ,like a mystical thing that now there's this cache for people to look back at the rave era and hip hop era as well right with this kind of wow back then or get it that kind of that kind of mindset, so all these things are becoming you know yeah their culture and looking back the culture and so maybe back a punk maybe right so they're19, 20 year olds. It's kind of there their parents or their you know uncles badge of honor but and but they like it they like a lot of the imagery and the stuff you see everywhere now.
KK: Yeah, yeah.
“putting our artwork out there hopefully spoke to people like me.”
PEZ: Everyone here so the Instagram and the the Pez, the interest in Pez, to focus the younger people you're interested in kind of understanding what we all go up to and this kind of revolution that went on and um, wishing that they kind of grown up then maybe like we did or something like that especially being locked down now you got your stories of your dad or your uncle, and they're you know, running around in a field you know doing whatever it's a different, it's a time different time.
KK: Yeah I mean, I mean arguably you know what better time to start experimenting on new music and such I mean not that I'm advocating anything lowbrow but you know what I mean it is actually a bit like that, it's a curious thing isn't it um and and and and some like you say sometimes there's this it goes in cycles things suddenly become very 80s and chic and then 90s comes in and then and this kind of fashionable like we resuscitation of old things that is kind of like a throwback to the people that are in the more the marketplace you know what I mean
PEZ: Well they use it to sell right, so you see someone in the street wearing Flares it's like okay they weren't good the first time. So it's funny but we know why, we know the machine is just doing the machine thing, but it's it's great to on now you've got the social media you've got the Instagram and all that kind of stuff right, so yeah people all over the world really like your style you know and they might be just coming up and might be graphic designer I on the other hand get messages from people saying I became a graphic designer because I was so entrenched in flyers and your flyerr artwork so know if you inspired one person then that's great.
KK: Yeah, yeah dude that's really, what it's all about isn't it like to feel you were you contributed to something that was bigger than you and you didn't realize you was doing it but you were just having fun I mean that's like the best shit isn't it.
PEZ: I was just sending messages right because I wanted to you know like for example like this is rhis is probably one of the biggest messages right this is a beyond therapy right so this is one.
KK: Fire
PEZ: That was like one of the most disturbed kind of images so you got these babies that are beyond therapy and they were smiling and reaching out to each other like Michelangelo Z and then but people be like yeah like didn't understand what we were doing. These these guys they're messed up in the head but um to us that it was our secret lil picture, it was our our thing. I said that was what I was doing at the beginning was so saying putting our artwork out there hopefully spoke to people like me and you know that was that was it the fact, I enjoy doing it and loved doing it and then obviously seeing my flyers everywhere was a bonus but that was always what about is, about so now this is us this is a thing all right it was no going back to the hip hop. And when I came in to hip hop at like 15 like through Subway Art that look was established where I so I was like a so I call us like the Subway Art generation so like the renaissance that happened in New York and I'm monologuing now right so the Renaissance that happen in New York that we just blew up everything and then as they're just spawned where we are now so we will now be this subject to this graffiti revolution. They're not I've got to the end of say ‘89 after doing you know being doing graffiti ’85, ’86, ‘87 era when I was a teenager and then ‘89 comes along and it's that now there's this whole scene that's just exploded with no look with nothing everything's open. So okay, so hip hop had like graffitiand all that kind of vibe and style what's this scene gonna have and it's it was at the beginning, I'm at this beginning this road what's it gonna be what do it create it just have a go be the scene be you know one of these guys from back then you know in this scene so it was really exciting. I've just built a billion inside me lights choking about all this is gonna happen, this is gonna be big I have no idea how just how big, maybe proper years two or three years maybe but not forever that's been like 30 years now man, like geez.
A GOODBYE TO GRAFFITI
KK: Dude, dude, dude, do you have you got any pieces with you if any of your graff from this.
PEZ: this is an outline right and thing so I was doing stuff in ignite I lived in South End at the time I grew up as a teenager in South End in Essex, right.
KK: Right.
PEZ: But and then and there was a friend of mine called Framer so he was still writing he was younger than me who's that one like that that was mentor such if you like that right and then come on get yourself out of this do one last piece before you disappear completely.
KK: Right,
PEZ: This is, you cant really see it on the camera well but there's that the Framer character on the end there like.
KK: Shit that's sick bro. That's that's so authentic that is so like of that time.
PEZ: Yeah so that was my like goodbye to graffiti back then and you know so it was and but then it was quite funny because graffiti at the end of it for me we used to go to which would take if you want to go back was you know 15 years old, 16 years old bunking on the train up to London, going to Ladbroke grove, going to Covent Garden but many people who are in the B-boy hip-hop scene or whatever but he was all naïve and young buying you 12, you booted records or whatever but it was alright at that time. I mean maybe it's my naivety but at that time if spell you felt pretty safe we we just got to Ladbroke grove quite alot in those times like ’85, ‘86 and it was alright but then by the time ‘88 come round it got proper heavy you know. You could go out there and get taxed and that all your things take you know, you know at best if and worse so it became a bit moody and so then when the house, thing came along where everyone was included there was like because I'd bump into writers and people from that old scene that we used to have like issues or beefs or whatever. We used to say back then, it was all gone you know so it was was a contrast from feeling like love for hip hop at the beginning when it was love you know in the early days know or you know are you a B-boy, are you a rapper or you know early days and doing all those different roles and breakdancing and all that, so then we kind of changed they've got a bit heavy and then house change that it was proper, ou see that old character coming out and being friends when there were no business being friends before you know yeah, yeah, um.
THE CHANING OF A SCENE
“All these different events (and scenes) needed flyers right, so I had to create different looks for different things but still being Pez.”
KK: What was it like in those early days of a rave.
PEZ: So, between ‘89 and ’90, end of 1991. It was like cowboys and Indians, it was like the Wild West and anything was possible you, you it was just you everything was crazy man, you, you never knew what's gonna happen.You know was it was there probably gonna happen, where's the generator you're on the phone going where's the generator. I was hiding here and it's gonna go there so what it was like some like comedy right really it all happen and then suddenly it is there you know 5,000 people and their load of fairgrounds and speakers and everything you know it was and that's what maybe everything was like you know it's I'm so excited like are butterflies like times 10 because you just need know who's gonna happen where we going now. I was it's not here in the wrong place you drive another 50 miles like it was nothing just and then get to another place enjoy and it was like very much like that and everyone was in it inside you do you know anything do you know anything and so the energy levels were out like you could turn up even just to a service station and the energy levels were palpable, you could just taste it. I can only imagine that being at a football live matched up its final and just that kind of intense feeling of is it gonna be us, is again knowing that all and all the whole crowd feels it together, that's saying like energy levels are just they're just because we just want to go to this part so I was like that.
KK: Mad.
PEZ: Very naughty was all misbehaving and all just being a bit cheeky you know it wasn't nasty, it wasn't criminal, even though you were breaking the law I guess, but it was just and every, every, every end to everything you wanted to do at the end was to to try and have a good time with friends. It wasn't about the DJ, It wasn't about who was playing, it wasn't we're gonna worship somebody or it was anything wrong with that, sorry dude, it's just, it was just, let's get to a space right where this is music like this is because of the DJ that you like and all your pals and just gonna go you just gonna go crazy and if you feel like maybe 12, 14 hours or whatever and, and, and for it to even happen at all was was it and that's what I think is lost a little bit and it sounds like I'm going aw the times are so much better when I was younger. I'm not saying that it's just they still do free parties now and I'm sure this you know that you still have that same kind of it you know excitement but the trouble is, is that everyone was the same and as it grew exponentially over the time from that thousand, two thousand people up, so about twenty thousand people that race from that point at this point was it was super fast and it was just it was a roller coaster, you just weren't getting off, No one wanted to get off. That was the thing.
KK: It's actually, a crying shame that things in their beginnings it was the same with punk I think it's the same with a lot of like subcultures and whatnot they what starts off as a really great up a creative idea it, it suddenly grows horns and two tails and two necks and you know I mean it doesn't it never it never stays yours does it? It's really hard to control it after a period of time and then you get yeah that's actually what makes it more fun, because you know that this is now uh it's like a virus and it's fucking happening but then at the same time it's like shit like this all could come crashing down at any moment.
PEZ: Yeah what happened he just split up yeah because people would start to realize that the DJS they liked were kind of playing slightly differently, so the good thing about the early players was that you come in and so say Fabio was on right so you'd like Fabio because whatever reason then someone else would come on and you'd be like that's not for me let's go have a wander, right. So there wouldn't be all these arenas or whatever so you just you just have a wander and you just be like okay so um let's go do something else. So then what happened was Drum and Bass grew out of it, and then happy hardcore, grew out of it and you know garage grew out of it, all these different like like you said horns and heads and different things grew out so you could just go to any party and just listen to your kind of music, all night. So that's what gave it legs but also killed the beast as such because then it wasn't this one unified beast that were just like running rampant across the country. They started to kind of you know like gizmo created the gremlins right so like drum and bass, popped up, jungle popped up over there, this one just popped up over there just created havoc in there own little world. Just so fucked up over there this guy's
KK: Yeah and then you these hierarchies of people that didn't like hardcore but like jungle and then you get the junglers and you know this this room one, room two, room three, kind of thing that's popping off and the rivalries in that right.
PEZ: So go because then you could have superstars within their genre right so you have emcees, you have DJ's that could then like play to a whole new set of people so yeah that's it just it just wants so much so much bigger yeah its, and that's why it's had longevity right because of the splitting up
KK: Yeah I did actually, now you come to mention it and you put it like that I, I didn't I never thought about it like that put that there the reason why these these genres came to fruition around the same time was because of the entertainment factor they wanted to keep people's attentions and that's why I'm the emcee starting coming in and that's where you say these these seeds of new styles of music's started emerging.
PEZ: Yeah and and they grew out of the same, London would have his own kind of vibe so world dance was very drum and bass orientated and that was that where I was happiest, and so they're able and the Paradise, you know that was the scene, you know. the drum n bass scene in London. and for example they'll see things like from September to like spring you were in clubs it was moody, it was like winter so that everyone was back to uni and everyone was in town and so the vibe, let's get down and dirty to drum n bass, beat break like you know and that and and and that's what happened. So for my, my artwork keys for that drum and bass kind of scene and then you have another lot which would say for the happy hardcore scene and so that would have to be happier and a little bit more colorful a bit cheesy but as such but that's what kept it that's what kept alive that gave me a lot more opportunity to work with different people because all these different events needed flyers right, so I had to create different looks for different things but still being Pez which is difficult.
KK: Yeah that's that's a that's a trick in itself isn't it to try and refine and keep moving forward with the progression of a scene it's constantly evolving
PEZ: Yeah, I think you know now it's now as people are looking back unless you actually like you said about the in store stuff, unless your actually living in it and you're in touch with what it was and know about it someone coming in from outside and trying to understand the nuances of it it's very difficult it's just seen as kind of you know pop culture or whatever and that and that's what seems to be happening now in retrospect you're looking a as a whole thing said like you know it's kind of come full circle right.
KK: That's interesting you say that, yeah and and I think maybe even I do it although I was like I said I was more into hip-hop. I was a little bit younger but obviously that all the kings were there like the ones with the throne state they were undeniably like superstar DJ's and your whole it's weird how the whole because of the the free party and the illegal rave of it all like you're fine. I mean I'm from West Sussex right and yeah you know there wasn't a weekend go by where I wasn't losing mates to going there going to some legal place in near Worthing or Brighton or in the Downs or you know near Crawley, you know. These were these are all areas where they would cover so this was such a widespread thing right and yeah it's mad to think that it had such huge coverage and um and yeah you you had your you had your kings and you had this you had this ever mood it was it was an ever-flowing presence constantly changed right.
PEZ: Yeah and the thing was is that you know you said, about people you'd losing and people, I'd be in Rain dance in East London, and then I'd see that writers and people from the hip-hop scene just thought, well what they doing here? and well well I'm there, why aren't they there? Right, right so as you know and they're just coming for a good time, right yeah I have football on opposite team you know in the same arena that usually were beating each other up on a Saturda,y now kind of you know having a good time and everything's forgotten it was a good time. In that respect because of all the bets were off you know whether you were white, black, gay, rich, skinny whatever, whatever your m.a. was, it didn't matter you were in and you were safe you were pretty.
“… in ‘92 when I was like the most prolific and that like there was 14-15 flyer being given out and like 9 or 10 of them were mine it was just like that was mind-blowing.”
KK: Yeah, man and like you like you put it it was your own interpretation I see yeah it was it was an equivocal of what America had done with hip hop. What I what I find interesting about your direction and choice of creative output is like there would be a tag on a train or piece on a track side but you had adapted it so that you infiltrated like people's you know and people's walls and like you were you were constant your your art was constantly being handed out at the end of raves.
PEZ: We were talking before right and just saw the way I kind of view it is that Instagram now is that Flyers, right for that. So if you think about it all everyone's on there looking at what's happening on Instagram and it's just all in me though Flyers were like analog Instagram back in the day.
KK: Oh that's fire. go on, as well sick.
PEZ: Or they were like trains so in the rules were in early graffiti, you had to learn all different disciplines like the outlines, the characters, the coloring, in you know all those different things before you become like you know King or whatever. And you have to have pieces running all over town to be like all our King and all these kind of stuff like the hierarchy of working your way up through the ranks right.
KK: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
PEZ: Where as, your stuff was up everywhere being seen by everybody and your tag was known, so my tag was PEZ it went onto a flyer and suddenly now beyond therapy for example things massive posted the one with the babies were massive poster and my second flyer and it was absolutely huge like people were handing a2 like give them out.
KK: Mad, mad, I fucking remember them, it's fucking mad mad.
PEZ: These posters and the flyers I mean a 19 year old kid with all this stuff everywhere used to do like graffiti and be like you know wanting to be that this that's it ticked all the boxes, thats it. If they stopped there I would have been happy. I remmber coming to rage because we lived in rage, I'm sure we will get on to rage in a minute, where I get to come out of rage, and that was the beginning of the weekend on Thursday right and that would be where you'd learn what was going on all the flock out on rage and there was one week where in ‘92 when I was like the most prolific and that like there was 14-15 flyer being given out and like 9 or 10 of them were mine it was just like that was mind-blowing
KK: That is absolutely insane you were that you were that you were the visual representation of people's experiences in the rave.
PEZ: I mean that might be like my peak right there in ‘92 it's volume because they were a lot easier to paint them because they weren't so involved but that in particularly London anyway, in the London area southeast scene you know that's a yeah, it was a lot. To be so 20 years old and do all that it was mad and the other thing is is that I was probably anyonmus, really from it because it was only the flyer I knew my friends knew but I wasn't say GrooveRider or like you know any of these other guys who was up there in in the front I just start coming out yeah man look, look, look, look just so happy excited about that that would that was enough.
SETTING A STANDARD AND MOVING A CULTURE FORWARD
“we're there to just send this message out to everybody….this is what we're doing, we're keeping this rollercoaster going.”
KK: And it's crazy to think how like from inception you were doing art free hand and then that was getting repressed like nowadays there are so many portals and platforms in which you can take advantage of technology and be whatever you want to be as a side hustle to your main event, that you're doing. Like it's, it's crazy to think that you are so good at what you were doing that you were able to just do that and the time it took and they did the turnaround like that this this whole thing it's bizarre to think about it now because there is just so much opportunity, with technology and it's in abundance but back then it really was a case of you know, there's no jack of trades here.You are really you you know you have focus in on that thing and you'll be successful right.
PEZ: Yeah I mean you don't think at that time there wasn't Photoshop like there is now so me and H, was the guy that I used to do the first flyers with in the early days we went to college together and we were like airbrushing. He was being taught by really that well-known airbrush artist at a time so me and him would I be together just trying to like experiment and he'd be getting all the tips and all the knowledge from there like the expert and so on again H we've got your flyer and so and so this week so we'd be just there trying to mix the airbrush and masking film and copy him you know all that kind of stuff because if we had been born five years later we're done it on Photoshop, We would never have done it the old school way, because by then Photoshop would have was in you know as much quicker as much more accessible. At that point but at that point it wasn't we're talking about ‘88 right and think about we want to look like we've done it on Photoshop we want to look like we've done it on a computer we want to look like it's that level.
KK: I love that, I fucking love that. I love that played out like that with you guys
PEZ: Mmall spray can basically that's one airbrush is it's a mini-stroke at most so it's just it was just come on and we’d take jobs we couldn't even know how to do. So yeah yeah we can do that week to sort this out and we just we just like history so did we hit it and here we are you know.
KK: It's initiative though right I mean you know you're you're forcing okay on one hand you're forcing yourself into a situation and you want to improve yourself but also you're pushing forward that DIY culture and you'll tell him you're setting a standard and you're creating you're expanding on the movement
PEZ: Yeah and we wouldn't skip paintwork so we're there to just send this message out to everybody right and we're here to though this is what we're doing we're we're keeping this rollercoaster going right. So every week another flyer, there is another event and it was a period of time when the police and the government cracked it down. We thought this is it, this is over right. We managed to get through that and then some of the PI's got licenses and then that was it once that once they got licenses once we went to the early 90s and we're hitting into the Helter Skelter which was a legal party would think you know got a license. You know dreamscapes getting license, Rain dance getting licenses so they were you we had these big players right. They were putting their money in to a business and a scene which then we knew now we were starting to put down roots and genres were happening and and for us to then be able to produce our work and like I say not get a proper day job. It was just it was great that I knew there's a few more years and then I made some good friends. I made friends with like Richard from rain dance and Helter Skelter and we're now still friends today, but you know some I chose to kind of whittle it down as the Flyers become more involved and took longer. But I'm just going to work for rain dance, I'm just gonna work for Helter Skelter, I'm just going to work for world dance and kind of all that odd little flyer things. I used to do all the time I had to kind of cut back and just that the yard were benefited because you got much more detailed and much more messed up.
KK: Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, you got to focus on the there comes a time with everything I think where especially if you're creative where you know you know you put your eggs in certain baskets and you know you just know like I mean these are these are huge names you know. I mean like Dreamscape you know I mean Helter Skelter like did you get involved with any of their tape packs as well the designs of them?
PEZ: Yeah, I did the tape packs, bomber jackers, the thsirts, slip mats, it was on everything you know we had a shop in the Kings row for Raindance, Helter Skelter probably sold more merchandise than anybody else.
KK: For sure.
PEZ: Tape packs stuff so you know for me now looking back I just took it in my stride at the time just I was just this what we do be nobody thing okay well yeah you got pretty busy and your stuff is probably everywhere and you know.
“In my artwork when I'm listening to music, I need to be inspired from that drop that break that that mixing that technical ability.”
KK: That mad bro, it's fucking mad like I'm talking to you who did that shit it's crazy
PEZ: Norm, it was the norm that that was day to day you know that was a desk that's what we did and it's it's now so come full circle now, where I'm enjoying painting I'm not painting for anybody as such right so but you know you're a creative right so when you're when you're creating something maybe for a deadline or forsomething right so that's good because it pushes you but sometimes it's nice to just get up and go you know I feel like I'm just gonna create something today.
KK: Oh mate, tell me about it, for real.
PEZ: It doesn't always work, sometimes it does you know but and it's nice because I can just sit there put the music on set the mood do the thing, and music obviously being an influence that we spoke about before as well right.
KK: Yeah, yeah for sure. It's actually it's actually baffling that as times gone on like the criminal justice bill was like a very heavy penalty for a lot of people begin what you say you must have thought well we fucked the whole scenes fucked.
PEZ: Yes well I don't, it was okay, because on the day when we will protest in town square with freedom to party and that we had a party we would broke into a warehouse and had a party that night and my lasting memory of that night is being out of back and the police are chasing a rabbit. Alright a guy dressed in a rabbit costume and they grabbed the guy inrabbit costume by the ears and he's trying to make it across the feilds right to the to the party because he was off the protesting in his in his rabbit suited they are trying to and chase him. Two old school bobbies with the big hats on and they're running there and then running past him and everyone that is outside has turns to watch him and like it's like a baseball thing and he gets across the line and he's safe you know that's kind of the energy of it really is that he got across the line, he's safe right. So you could say that that is indicative of what happened after that once they shut us all down well they didn't like it wasn't so much that we were being naughty or running around and getting the degenerates, this is just they weren't getting paid so yeah – then after that okay you have a license but then we're going to take X amount of money for themselves and the tickets and up to that it was all under the counter at record shops maybe you know a bit cash or dodgy dealings, but you know after that government will allow us gather in purpose venues and you know and so that's why they took that century and you know in mind and stay in East London under the big tops because that was okay, we can all go doing but you know it was legal it was it was you know someone was getting paid hopefully.
KK: That's what I was gonna say because he was baffling to me I, I had them I had Tony Prince. He's he was a famous DJ on radio Luxembourg he also went on and done the world DMC championships you know the DJ championships thing back in the day you still prevalent now like they have it every year and it's just a huge technical jerk off of like you know tenacity behind a set decks right and he was saying but back in the day like music was dangerous like you had to be FM radio station you needed to be on a boat in the middle of a Scandinavian ocean somewhere and you weren't allowed to just and it's crazy the way that the control of that whether it's the government. I don't know I think music sometimes loses his own risk and danger and you know some things are best left under the you know you know under the curtain behind the curtain of the
show do you know what I mean , do you know I'm saying.
PEZ: yeah and that's the difference in feel they're going to say the sound tree
was fantastic right, you had the Sanctuary was fantasic you had some of the best DJ sets I've heard they're you know with certain MCS or whatever Stevie I PB you have example.
KK: Big up Stevie, rest in peace.
PEZ: and Baron J but that goes down as one of the best connected DJ like MC sets for me anyway,in drum and bass and so, so for that they still happen so it goes like moments up till there's none better than network so so there are those moments, but they they're equally not the same as the deregulate like lets run around the m25 trying to find a spot to sticker generally you know thats the difference but it's funny it's meant like the music you seem funny to mention that in the way that the DJ cheese and the mixing championship that time that that feeling of music for me was always still inside going into house music right so.
KK: Right.
PEZ: So the drop and though you know just the technical ability of throwing it in and then the break and then just that ,oh you know no in the when the break dancer gives you that spin and the freeze that you weren't expecting that needed that from house music right, so when the music change and to have like brakes or drum n bass that would drop that and give you that fulfillment you used to get from Hip Hop but all that MC like the hip-hop MC like Eminem when you goes and just oh no he didn't you know it's so much.
KK: Yeah, Yeah.
PEZ: In my artwork when I'm listening to music, I need to be inspired from that drop that break that that mixing that technical ability. Where some house music and know which is nice when you're in Ibiza and you're in a certain frame of mind, and it just kind of goes that's lovely but it's not giving me that kind of you know that that bam that I need, so when, when I'm when I'm looking for inspiration I have I need that level of like wow! like you know know you've got Rocksteady Crew that includes the t-shirt right there when you see them break and move or something like that I need that satisfaction, you can't just give me a tune and that's it you gotta keep delivering it let's keep doing it. let's keep delivering fun boom, boom so for me for their art for the inspiration for the music whatever genre is from has to keep keep me in that that frame of mind that buzz that hype. and not a lot music can do that.
KK: And drum n bass has that as well, like nowdays you can get any sample pack under the Sun, you get any anything you want if you want to sound like a certain producer a certain genre, you can do that for me, it's like when people use their own personality is when they contribute a song by adding a certain twist to it that is like woah what the fuck like what the hell's that do you mean it's like that that's a character played you know I mean it humanizes it, you know what I mean.”
PEZ: Yeah and it can influence us like and that's one of the things I don't know about otherwise but for me the it's a if it connects with me that can produce a certain piece of artwork like quino's and it's just got these haunting violins and whale noise in it and so it's not your everyday thing and it's just I claimed it and you know you just got keep playing it till you can't play anymore
KK: Yeah, yeah yeah.
PEZ: And yeah who doesn't know that has produced two or three pieces of artwork that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't have heard that track.
KK: For real
PEZ: And even you know hip-hop and stuff as well as see Scott said you know just give me that lift in the studio I need to go the extra hour to carry on cuz it takes time two o'clock, three o'clock in the morning because mostly I paint at night well because no one bothers right so yeah it's the difference between something being really good or just just a normal picture if there is such a thing
TOOLS OF THE TRADE
“PEZ flyer looks like a PEZ flyer because you know, it’s painted by PEZ.”
KK: It is crazy, it's crazy okay let techers talk all right let's open, tool box right what what what were you using outside of airbrushes to create that the art pieces back in the day.
KK: Dude, you did that piece in stock well right you did that oh you know a Hall of Fame.
PEZ: 303 right he's like Pez I'm gonna do the world's biggest flyer, I go what you do mean, I'm gonna do the world dance flyer on there's like twenty four foot by twenty four foot and I was so like I don't know just welled up like pride that someone another artists would just such note would want to paint one of my pieces right .
KK: That shit is just so OG ain't that going back in full cycle her ain't that coming back around to the graff thing you know .
PEZ: no you just that's it so it's been a lot of that right that's what I'm saying so from from graffiti to airbrush to back to graffiti with Pat right so that that was I really enjoyed that day spend the whole daythere with him and then yes you know it was a funny thing happened it was just filling in a little bit but it was his job. I couldn't do it you know but yeah, it was good times good times
KK: Yeah that's fucking sick so it was a whole batch of hodge podge different piece
of gear that that helped you create because it, because airbrush is, is they're sick for for the for the delicate tones of a shade andand color but but one thing that I don't know it is by any means, must isn't it it's like if there is something that can facilitate a particular look it's like just do it, it's especially back then it's like fuck it. Doesn't matter just if it works it works it's all hands on and get just get dirty with the materials right
PEZ: Materials were it right so as bond back back in the eighties, was the paint for the Chrome Angelz right - gave you those colors that no one else knew how to get if you didn't know and so and that i earmarked this piece is one of the finer just one of the defining pieces I knew I wanted to be you know this piece right.
KK: Yeah Bro, I mean yeah honestly yeah fire
PEZ: So back then I'll just thought, I'll just go do this the you know so the colors and so when you say materials give you a look that was the indicative events everything materials so a PEZ flyer looks like a PEZ flyer because you know, it’s painted by PEZ or an H and whatever but it's because we use those materials in a certain way and we wanted to try and capture there's a lot of similarities and the blues and the Reds and the yellows and the Gold's that are used in the Flyers which hark back to that period of graffiti, where they were very prevalent in the Chrome Angelz style right because they work for a reason they make you feel that way because the blend and the fades. It works and when and and so when we went to the next level which was the end of doing the flyers we've obviously still got that in us that kind of yearning to create that kind of look so there's a lot of blues in my flyers a lot of darks and blues and fades and in contrasting reds and yellows and golds and and but that way there's probably a look because I can't paint those flyers like that anymore because the materials aren't available that I had them so they're gone that look is gone I can try and create now
KK: Wow.
PEZ: I couldn't ever create one exactly like it was then because the bristol board isn't available like it was then and the film were that they made back then was very different they allowed you to away with more because if you think about your painting a hundred different pictures at the same time on one piece of paper every time a bit of film you could lick the paper back and then spoil the whole gig.
KK: Of course yeah, yeah totally that's the first me across my mind I think it's actually it's like an old Kodak film or Polaroid film isn't it, you like you, you, get you can't get the the that it's hard to explain it cos now I'm going to go into music but that analog feel is that analog equivocal of like the tone and grit and it's such a shame that you can't buy those things now and it.
PEZ: For example though I know it's used photos up there so if I go back in and I go into one of my files right and I want to repair it because the piece of artwork and say 30 years old and I know you can't use an airbrush in Photoshop that is the same texture and the same like I've got feeling a bit of blue unless of clone, there’s cloning or do some kind of magic way. I can't paint in the same way it's too nice now, those two smooth the gradients are too soft whereas this might look like all that nice and soft and thingy base when you look close up a it it's very great, we're very grainy so because it is of that time right so let's leave it there it's it's tied up in a nice bow. that's PEZ Flyers, that's it done. what's next.
KK: Yeah, yeah totally you've really just got a base really nice to it's actually, you must feel free, you must feel free that you you were you were like spearheading a visual representation of a time and you had a king in a game doing it and you like there is nothing else there that no one can do that shit anymore like no one can do it you you burnt you burnt the evidence, there's no more you can't get equipment you can't get the materials that's amazing.
A LESSON ACCORDING TO PEZ
“ I'm begging like the generation out there now and to use all these tools and just create some chaos because it's what we need we need a bit of like creative chaos."
PEZ: I mean for example music, had a hit like you know the prodigy came out there and you are there so2 coming out at all these you know you know all these different acts coming up that would just like it kids right so then they're owning it and they were just owning in their shit and their creativity and just up bang success. And one of the things that I often run into is that people don't realize just how many flyers were produced.so they didn't know that oh, cos they know they went to world dance and they know maybe that was a Pez flyer, and they went to another one, so they don't really realize that I pretty much works for every one of the organizations at some point. But it was just that a flyer and promoter says no I just want to have a PEZ flyer in my collection, I've used this guy all the time but I just want this event to be a PEZ flyer so can you please give me a PEZ flyer. So but okay fine, so that would be that would be like PEZ mix for that that thing most like remixing thing right. So ,so I'm proud to have had been so prolific but I'm proud proudest of the set of work that I'm probably most proudest of other Helter Skelter Flyers because they're just so intricate and just I gave everything into those in the last years of doing fliers right up until like the millennium flyer so 1990s up ’98, ’99, 2000 the artwork them was just wow, that like I said to you take a month to produce so now something behind like that is really cool. and I'd kind of I'm not sure then I stopped painting but I know besides that since the restaurants just funnily enough and but it wasn't till about four years ago so I've spent about ten years out of the game. I guess artwork so I was just concentrating on game business is going and doing and and then it's that one of those little kind of Netflix film stories where my daughter you know it finds all my are folders where I've got like the old classic like student folderswith all the a lot of the originals in right from the flyer days.
KK: Amazing.
PEZ: and she goes whats all this and so oh yeah that's my art so she’s know I used to do painting because you heard right, but never seeing any of it and so she says dad are you crazy you know you need to like you need to paint like what are you doing running restaurants and like doing that when this is this is you that this isn't so she's hit me up with this heavy guilt trip about earning my back of myself and I just started laughing, okay alright so I set up a little studio in there in the house and done. So I did it the first canvas was just to see if I could do it, I bought an airbrush I said oh my all this stuff and knock-up whatever but the old compressor out, did older flyers I put the same drawing board it did all the Flyers the same compressor that did all the flyers and I've got a new airbrush treated myself and then my first picture was of her and her sister right just in black and white like a monotone kind of thing just see if I could like still have some skills right, it was really really weird so then I did that and then that was just a nearly four years ago three or four years ago, and it's just gone crazy since then just and I've really enjoyed this how helped me to deal with the day-to-day of that the pressures of business and pressures of running what I do you know with the restaurants and stuff I'm still doing are you seen my post its online and
KK: Yeah man so tell me you want this to be true I'm hoping you're gonna say yes like are you is this a side hustle you're still doing it and it they're going out as PEZ art pieces from from they've been purchased with the knowledge that you did all those Flyers back in the day.
PEZ: I’m doing canvases like to order that is GG behind me there right. GG Hadim did 2020 there which is another thing but yeah so I'm doing that but I'm also just just painting and gathering up like canvas and stuff and I've done a couple of books so you know that's shameless promotion so we had this book which boy doesn't alter culture right that's on my website and basically sort of orders matter stuff that have like with all my worth just a rain dance that's one but that's just rain dance artwork right.
KK: Too much for me mate, it's fucking this is too much this is to on point it's like you've got it nailed in and it all comes back to your work ethic when you was a kid fucking amazing.
PEZ: That's why I say if I leave a bit fuzzy message on this like podcast the Killa Kela podcast is that I want to say that back then, I just believed because there was a kind of belief I don't know if it was just me or the people we were surrounded we were lucky just to be, we just believed we could do anything right. I know that believe we just believe I didn't come from money , I had money we was just a working-class family and I just believed that I was going to be a millionaire and that was it you know and I just got crack on come on millionaires whatever, so I'm just got a quick cracking away and believe it and use all the tools you've got. like I said back in the day we we had like a mobile phone or a friend had a mobile phone when were that turn 19 or whatever and we were running round fields and and and doing all this stuff and create a whole scene from literally nothing and all the tools so I got the other this thing in their hands like create some crazy things. that we did yeah because we're getting too old now right so just just you go be sorry I want to watch someone else cause chaos and I just upset the applecart little bit because I know rule on lockdown now and that's all different people when we come out of this I'm begging like the generation out there now and to use all these tools and just create some chaos because it's what we need we need a bit of like creative chaos
KK: Mate, I could not agree I could not agree any more, you know what I mean like this you're so right you need that there needs to be shake-up, there needs to be something like yeah you know what I mean it's a red red bull culture you know I mean like you there needs to be a real injection of anarchy or something right.
PEZ: You know I don't know, I'm not being cynical I'm just saying let's have some fun use your tools, everything's too heavy in a minute so afterwards just go out there, life's too short, just do it but I just believe you could be you can do it don't worry about your life today just crack on and do something crazy, you know.
KK: fucking right, fuckin.
PEZ: A lesson according to Pez.
KK: Listen bro, and I'm hoping this very much that that people have never put face to art have now done you know themselves a favor and checked out Pez and go on to the Instagram check out some not only some legacy work but culture defining artwork and some of the you know a lot of people went to them raves like we've got some of your flyers at home but without question without question so you know to anyone out there that has not ever cross Pez before check em out on Instagram get the books get involved remind yourself what what this you know what this legacies about man and yeah big up yourself Pez.
PEZ: Big up yourself as well. Big up everybody out there. get out there and do some stuff.
KK: that's the shit thank you so much for coming on Pez man it's been a pleasure brother thank you so much.
PEZ: pleasure.
KK: Ladies and gentleman, Killa Kela podcast out like it was out of fashion alright you know it do okay stay locked on subscribe share tell a friend to tell a friend and more importantly make the anarchy happen right PEZ?
PEZ: yeah 100 percent.
KK: Stay lucky people. Peace.
