the worlds first graffiti characters! legend Mark Bodé talks about his art & his father Vaughn Bode!
“ I got to pick up where my dad left off.”
#170 MARK BODE
KILLA KELA: Good afternoon or evening, whatever time it is ladies and gentleman, this is the Killa Kela podcast live and direct, central London or as central as you should be, from the Kensal Rise watchtower big shout out to my peoples Graffiti Kings and that you know what day it is, its Thursday street culture vibes and what?! the royalty levels in here is just upped by about 100 it's like 13 on the volume scale we have the mighty Mark Bodé inside the place, how are you brother?
MARK BODÉ: Good there's no online viruses I suspect so.
KK: I think your extremely protected brother.
MB: Yeah well you know gotta represent you’re in Bodé … Bodé, world ground zero here this is my studio.
KK: For real.
MB: And uh…
KK: He’s killing me you know what back in the day when you used to say online viruses it was almost like the only virus you're likely to get and it'd be on your computer nowadays it is a whole different affair isn't it?
MB: Yeah, yeah for sure it's I don't know it's like being a bug in a jar you know I just my wife and I aren't used to it we we like our nightlife you know?
KK: Your night animals, you are night creatures?
MB: Yeah, we you know she's a belly dancer and I'm an artist we've got a lot of stuff you know and a lot of socialism… socializing and stuff. but anyway, I should.
KK: I love, I love the bohemianess of that. there's something about that like my girlfriend is a dancer as well.
MB: I did a cobalt-60 recently but I just get out of this so quick.
KK: Yeah yes, you're free you're free at last.
MB: Since there's no online viruses, I think I’m safe.
KK: Ladies and gentleman for those that don’t know the pedigree that we're dealing with here and and you know we working very different generations so, you'd be within your right to want a little bit more detail on this gentleman here, West Coast one of the pioneers, well comes from a generation of pioneers in in street art but not as you'd ever think it it would influence… influential comics of Vaughn Bodé your father and.
MB: Yeah.
KK: The dynasty continues with with you being the proprietor now of the original cartoon style the original Bodé characters right.
MB: Yeah well my dad never got to see his influence on the street art in there in the graffiti subway trains and of the you know 70s, 80s I mean my dad I think the first Cheech wizard was done by Ree1 and Chino on a train in 1975 but like in November or something and my father had died in July so he never got to see his influence but he knew that his comics were gonna be bigger than just comics you know, like the characters and he knew it was gonna be bigger he just didn't know how and I… I'm so glad I got to experience you know, like I pick up the torch and keep going with it and keep him alive in different ways and you know.
KK: For real, for real. I remember seeing a documentary or least an interview with him it's been a while since I've seen it but from what I understand he was very um proactive and protective of his of his brand. He was like one of the early people in like comics to really like own his own his copyright right he he owned his stuff like quite strongly he was he was all about that wasn't he.
MB: He spent thousands and thousands of hours on his worlds and developing his style so he was very protective of it when when he was negotiating, and a lot of publishers would just own your artwork and own whatever you did. For them my father was always like showing the stuff from across the desk. You'd never let the publisher touch the original art you know we don't like this and go you like it okay then you put it back in it and then like they never actually laid hands on it so.
KK: I’ll just leave this here and okay you just think on that one.
MB: There was there was one publisher that used to stamp bullshit. He had a bullshit stamp, like a red bullshit stamp if he didn't like what you did he he'd like stamp bullshit right across the original art my father was like in exit, standing way back, anyway yeah it was a different day back then you know you could, publishers just ruled the world and my father was one of the first creators to go for the creators rights and and and I still own the rights to all his characters you know.
KK: So, you own all the rights to all of his these work.
MB: Yes, I do.
KK: I'm looking down here ladies and gents, if you’re not on audio, that is the original, the come on, um yeah cos you have actually for those of you that are listening and not watching I mean, for those watching you in for a treat because we actually do have some very VIP archived bits and bobs to be shown on the screen right.
MB: Mmhmm. Yeah yeah, I can show you some of the, these are some of my dad's sculpting models, he made the draw from and this one here is the Cheech Wizard, he would draw stars, that’s the actual Cheech Wizard he made to draw from.
KK: Wow.
MB: Later on, and they became toys just last year I mean he was.
KK: For a lot of people I've never seen.
MB: He was 50 years ahead of his time I mean. all the time you know like these these just became toys from these that were done in 1969 you know.
KK: Insane.
MB: And here they are, here are the originals I don't know if the reflection is there if you can see,
KK: Yeah, yeah, we got it. this is this is just some legendary documentation going on here, Mark this is amazing.
MB: Yeah and you know it's it's cool because, uh I got this you know pick up where he left off that's his hat that's my father's hat that he use to wear that's, that's the wizard, the Cheech Wizards Hat’s hat.
KK: Yeah yeah, exactly. It doesn't get more the buck stops there you know, what I mean it goes without saying I mean, you know when you've… your father is so incredibly influential and like you say when, it wasn't he never got a chance to see it there must be like not only like some higher levels of pride but you …you've, you've always thought the mission brief on that for you must be to anybody that was there to witness the explosion of graff with these characters being so prominent you must've had some pride, you must have thoughts of… right here's my mission brief, I'm gonna make sure that this name lives on and throughout right.
MB: You know the moment he died that was 12 years old and I was like my, my childhood is over. I just I gave up my childhood and I said I'm gonna, I'm gonna you know spend all my time drawing and uh and I cut off all my friends on my own age and I started hanging out with my dad's artist buddies and not being a kid anymore, so I give up my childhood for that but um but by the time I was 15 I was colouring his work for heavy metal magazine and and I ghosted because I was too afraid that they go “oh he's too young to be in heavy metal” so I ghosted and they accepted it and it still looks good you know like I did a good job you know and.
KK: I can't deal with this, this is just too much bro, this is crazy, so you did the colorings for them heavy metal magazines.
MB: For my dad's work yeah for in 1978-79 something like that and I just I just finished for issue number 300 of heavy metal it's coming out this July and its um doing some strips for them this is one of the pages.
KK: Oh, that’s sick yeah, yeah yeah yeah,
MB: This is cobalt 19 which you know, it's my virus story like we're you know basically I want to get know basically I wanted to do like my inspiration was weightless um sex with my inspirations like I have them having sex and then and then the virus comes in through the to the ducts of the spaceship and it's it's not a feel-good ending it's not a happy ending, you know.
KK: It’s not the happy ending everyone wants.
MB: There’s a happy ending but not a happy ending.
KK: yeah, yeah
MB: but also revived Sunpot which was in the very first heavy metal magazine, um this is a really monumental kind of issue to be in and the number 300 of heavy metal there's hardly any um any magazines left to work for like in my Dad's day, it was you know all kinds of men's magazines and playboy and you know penthouse and we magazine and but his very first strip that was in um heavy metal number one was Sunpot and I just revived it for another for another episode another chapter because Sunpot dies, my father killed Sunpot in it, in the the one story he did it was like 30 page story and he used to be used he used to read these things to me at bedtime stories when I was a kid and and I love Sunpot.
KK: No way.
MB: Well and and then one day I'm just learning to read and I'm I look on his drawing board and it says Sun Sun pot is dead and I read it out like sun…pot…. Is… dead and then and I looked at my dad I just start crying like why is Sunpot dead? Doctor electric and everybody and he said everybody's son they had to die you know everything everything comes to an end, it was their time they had to go so they die and and I was like in tears but this is like something like 50 years later.
KK: Yeah right.
MB: well I can revive this shit you know I don’t have my dad telling me he's dead it's it's the end you know like I can I can actually you know like.
KK: Go against the story and do it revive amazing Wow Wow.
MB: I'm just giving you a preview so you can you know, people who look out for the issue.
KK: it's blowing my mind man absolutely blowing my mind.
MB: I'm just gonna put a cap in your ass you know remove yourself pronto.
KK: Amazing you know it's just to see that it's to have you completely like still in loving the stories and just like it's like their next fucking day, it's like this is your world this is your world all the time isn't it.
MB: well yeah well I mean when you get down to it you know like you know as a kid that was kind of brainwashed in a good way you know my dad would show me what he was working on. He goes this is what I did with Cheech wizard just the other day, I was at his lab you know in and then he'd show me the story and then I’m like can I go see him and goes yeah sure lets you know, we pack a lunch and go up the hill and wait for Cheech to show up and he would never show up and my father would sit I would say well where is he, you know because well he's busy balling broads and doing tricks son. You see he’s a wizard and you know actually he'll show up and and what he was doing was putting that stuff in my mind so I'm imagining Cheech coming up the hill and that that's a way of brainwashing his worlds into mine like as a five-year-old you know if he's bullshitting you or not you know.
KK: Santa Claus isn't it.
MB: You know so I had Cheech wizard running around in my head and so later when I got my skills together it felt natural just to drop into the style you know wasn't it, it wasn't an effort but when I do my own stuff it's I inevitably go further and further away in different ways but when I do his stuff I I'm like back with the gang.
KK: It's like it's like you already know it isn't it's like it's a, it's a, it's like learning, knowing a language isn't it.
MB: Yeah it's it's a place where we can meet, you know like, you know when you lose somebody it's so special to you and you and all those characters died with him and could've but I chose to revive that keeps them alive you know, like so it's… it's like keeping an old friend alive that you want back you know from from the other side you know and and it's a, it's it's a trick it's a universal magic trick.
KK: Yeah, yeah totally.
MB: that defied death and come back from the grave you know like that's that's that's the trick.
KK: it's the beautiful thing about cartoon character I mean I've been you know before I you know I think I mean again we will definitely get into the the Ree1 and Chino you know explosion of putting them those characters putting the characters up on trains and etc but of its time there was no graff, there wasn't anything like that or at least it wasn't yeah it wasn't so widespread was it? So for it to have been adapted into graff is actually it's such a bizarre twist to the whole story of the… the comics and the cartoons you know.
MB: I remember being a kid and going at New York with him and going on the subway and stuff and there was tags, there was tags but no no pieces, I think it was three pieces more or less just early taggers at that point you know 73 to 75 feels like I when I was there I never saw like pieces on trains. I don't remember that but I wasn't looking for that I was you know um but but yeah dad you know the first time I saw a Bodé piece on a train, I had no idea what's going on it was like 82 I was going to school visual arts and I was on a I was on the platform and East East…or West 23rd and and I saw a non-stop go by me and I saw dead bone mountain, I saw like Cheech and the gang I saw Bodé broads and they were all whipping by and I was just like the wind hit me and in the face and the in the art hit me and I'm like who the fuck did that?
KK: Like what the fuck?
MB: The freedom to fucking get my dad up, what the fuck did that happen you know like in that was the first time I saw it and realized there was something going on I thought it was one person to tell you the truth. It took me a few years maybe another year to to figure it out but it wasn't in my face, I didn't know any writers back then I was a comic book person you know, like you know and and I was still you know teenager um so I wasn't hanging with the early writers um at that point um and I figured out later it was Kel and uh and Mare there that did those did that piece and because I explained it to Mare and he goes that sounds like something me and my brother did and we didn't get any photos you know, and so it's just in my head you know like but that was the first one I saw and then when I went move back to San Francisco in 83. I saw another Bodé piece you know in Folsom Street in San Francisco when his PW 17 so you know one of these models up here um and and then I realized it was more than one I said there's more than one there's something going on here and then I started to meet you know some of the writers in the Bay Area and then I met Dondi, Dondi was the first one that I met when I was in New York he came in, he stuck mine he sought out my mother's, my mother-in-law's bodega in Brooklyn he knew that I come I frequented it there, so he showed up and my mother-in-law kept saying there's this guy he's Dondi. I think his name is white Dondi.
KK: I just can’t deal with this.
MB: He's been looking for you and he's you know I told him you're gonna be here so um then he showed up and we spent a few hours you know, he never talked to me about doing pieces all he wanted to do was know, about my dad and so he kept on saying like what was Vaughn like and one was Vaughn you know and you know what is he you know what was his inspirations and and he and we've drawn in each other's books, but I was coming from a comic book world and he was coming from a graffiti you know Street art world and we never went like this it was just like we went like hat and we like you know and then we heard you know, so I was like I wish he had said come come paint with me you know but I would have started me out earlier you know because I was kind of a late starter and the graffiti thing you know I picked up a can in my 30s really you know hardly.
KK: Really?
MB: I didn't really, I did a couple pieces you know like actually the piece in spray can spray can art there's a there's a picture of me with a motorcycle hat piece was that piece was I actually have to have.
KK: the guy with my lovely mobile here we go.
MB: I have the doors of the spray can.
KK: that…stop.
MB: my friend saved the doors.
KK: no that is crazy…mad mad.
MB: but yeah so, I had the very originals, right here.
KK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MB: I’ll donate to the graffiti museum or something, later on.
KK: Yeah, yeah, I'm just thinking about this.
MB: I mean like you know I’m lucky that have my very first piece.
KK: yeah yeah I'm going back to your back to your your time as you worked you were a university for visual arts is that right…. there you go there we go. We found you it’s all right um going back to, can you hear me okay?
MB: yeah.
KK: Going back to your visual arts time in New York when you were the university there um what was the general opinion of graff although it just started granted but you know coming from a comic book community and a visual graphics community what was the what was impression of of graff writers at a time.
MB: I like I said I didn't know them you know like I… I you know you know who was just graduated Keith haring was just graduating school visual arts when I came in it was like I didn't get it you know I was like you know it saw his chalk drawings I couldn't I could have popped out some of these chalk drawings that he did in the subways cos like he was riding the same trains I was and I you know, it's like I was like what's big deal that this guy ever simple like it's almost like stick figures, I couldn't figure it out no more cross what the guy fucking. running a man, it's crazy my hood ends. No but I couldn't I didn't get it you know like open to the to doing the, the graffiti you know what's it what's what's the thrill about this you know like I didn't want to get arrested you know.
KK: Yeah yeah.
MB: so, I I was like I couldn't relate I was like I was still trying to fill my father's footsteps and and be a cartoonist.
KK: yeah, yeah.
MB: and so I didn't have any aspirations to to paint in the streets or anything like that like I said Dondi came a few years later then I met Zephyr and Revolt and and then it just, opened up like a book.
KK: Crazy, you spoke about the the the time we've Dondi the I think there's there's a really there's a really awesome dance that have when you've got two genres different dealing different creative outputs right you know on different mediums and different things and it's actually I guess it's the equivocal of like people that are into hip-hop being completely obsessed with jazz or funk, do you know what I mean. it's like it's one in the same but it's a totally different technique innit.
MB: hmm yeah for sure yeah I I just you know ,I have just one thing in mind and that was to and I did really well I mean I as soon as I got to New York City um I met Archie Goodwin of epic Illustrated which Marvel, they did like a heavy metal type thing but it was done by Marvel, l I came in they're all green and like Archie Goodwin was a good friend of my dad's I didn't know that but I was just I just kind of put stuff on his desk and I was like probably shaking and and he's like Mark I love your dad's work so much he he asked me to to write cobalt-60 for him, a long story but I thought it too personal to him so I I turned it down but now it's time we do it you know and like you and Larry Todd can do it this time and and he gave me a job and I was like like I go to the School of Visual Arts and all my peer hated me heard he had like a national magazine I was working for and having a page rate it was thanks to my dad you know I'm not gonna not gonna lie it's you know.
KK: but the technique still that the techniques bled through to you the second generation.
MB: well, so I gave up my childhood like I said to uh to be able to do that and and do his work well so yeah, I have.
KK: oh, here comes the boy, my god.
MB: This is my dad's yearbook.
KK: It’s 1964.
MB: 64 his first Cheech wizard strip ever.
KK: Original.
MB: my father ever in 1964 he'd invented him in 1957 , he'd actually do the first Cheech wizard, it was actually inspired by the Fantasia episode with Mickey Mouse and the wizard.
KK: Wow.
MB: and and it and then he came home and he drew a hat that was kinked at the top like in the in the movie when when Mickey gives the hat back to the wizard whips it away from him and makes all the water go away or whatever um my father came back and put the crooked hat and put the feet so that that's when Cheech wizard was born and.
KK: to have the mind of a cartoonist is just like is it must be a beautiful world of his own you know.
MB: first lizard.
KK: Wow.
MB: this strip called the Masked lizard yeah but.
KK: incredible… yeah look how detailed it is man look how on the money every pages it's like it's its own book.
MB: Yeah he had a real you know he wanted to get published but back then they were giving him a lot of rejections his style was so out that he'd go into like DC or marvel or were these companies and they throw his work back at him and say come back when you learn how to draw.
KK: Wow I mean.
MB: because he just didn't look like Kirby or didn't look like you know any of the classic guys you know that did you comics he was pioneering.
KK: a new look day a new look.
MB: yes, he had a lot of rejections.
KK: really?
MB: he wasn't very happy very depressed a lot well anything.
KK: I was gonna say.
MB: He decided to do it his own way and it took took a few more years but by the time in 1965 - 75 he was he was a pro and it said he only worked for ten years and that's all you know all the body of work you see out there it's his was only between 65 and 75
KK: wow.
MB: and most people cannot do that amount of work in a lifetime but he worked night and day like he was mainly on close to snow balls you know these little mushroom things from marshmallow things with .
KK: yeah yeah.
MB: with pink frosting.
KK: That’s the one.
MB: I yeah coffee and just stamp for like 48 hours and just do incredible amount of work and just eating crates of the stuff. I learned to be a good cook because when I went to visit him after my mom and him and like broke up I learned to be a good cook cos I didn't want to eat you know hostess snowballs.
KK: yeah yeah yeah.
MB: and twinkies and and that's what he offered for dinner and I was like nah, that’s okay dad, I’ll just make something over here.
KK: There’s something to be said there, you mean like obsessive people when it comes to I mean I'm obsessed, I'm obsessed excessive with the process and the creating of these shows you know. I like that I'm in love with it do you know I mean and there's something to be said about those people that go that extra that extra mile right.
MB: mmm yeah and a lot people think he was on drugs but no it was all sugar and caffeine and and just just you know he had a bad childhood he you know so he used those place to escape and so he got deeper and deeper as a child until he created these words where he was completely safe.
KK: yeah and.
MB: that's what it's you that depth you know I had some tragedies you know including his passing you know as a child that relatively loved you know like I was loved my father wasn't my father had to create worlds to be safe and I was already safe in his arms and my mom's you know and have to go as deep as that.
KK: the vibe of life the erotica side of these comics you know that the tits the you know this is like, this is like a young man's education, do you know what I mean, it's like seeing how to draw those I mean when I think of rocking jelly bean and MOTU and and you know people that continued the art of that you know there's still this look and feel of the the female form that you and you dad kind of refined and developed over there.
MB: for some reason he waited till I was 7… 7 years old was the magic number for him where he said son it's time you learn how to draw tits and he sat me down and and I drew line for line with him and he said if you always draw him like this you'll always make money and and and it happens.
KK: You made some crazy cheddar.
MB: I did you know he was a lying and I wish I had that drawing because I would have had it framed in gold.
KK: Bro, that was the money maker.
MB: Word, Word up.
KK: what…what are the I mean now I'm gonna open up the toolbox and you can with well within your rights ah I’m not gonna talk about that. well what are your favorite tools to use when creating like original pieces of pieces of art.
MB: mmm what medium?
KK: yeah, exactly.
MB: you know well I learned the way my father taught me originally was flare pen, you know felt-tip pen and then using the design markers which are now discontinued because they're benzene and benzene was killing people but I mean you know but you got high.
KK: There’s an addictive side to this art.
MB: chart pact and D markers now I use those that's for the comics but or when I'm on the road and I'm doing sketches at a comic convention, I use the markers and the flare pens but when I'm doing paintings like subway maps and you know like I do a lot of subway maps.
KK: Yeah, I’ve seen, killed it, I love it.
MB: Thank you, um uh I used to like I'll project the image onto the map and then sketch it out with a with a sharpie or something and then acrylics you know block it in with acrylics maybe give it a little spray with some see-through spray can or or airbrush yeah and outline it with paint marker.
KK: Really wow. that’s a lot of different….
MB: yeah so, I mean but it gets it's fast you know I can I can do one of those in two or three hours in most cases.
KK: A lot of different mediums like that,
MB: yeah but it works and it works fast it's efficient but I can do you know oils and stuff like that but I put my hand in I'll be working in and then all the sudden all the work I just did for the last hours on the back of my you know hand.
KK: I'm left-handed I'm the worst I'll be writing normally.
MB: I hate that, so I’d rather have something that dries quicker.
KK: yeah sure my back in the day like when you're doing stuff for liked hurt you know Ninja Turtles for instance what was the what was that all the tools of that time.
MB: those were done with the Kevin Eastman uses duo shade paper and we would I would pencil on onto the paper and then he would do the duo shade like it's a chemical like two chemicals one chemical gives you cross-hatching one way another chemical gave you both ways so you could just gray tone all your stuff.
KK: yeah, yeah so, so, it gave you the shadow and depth, that so the piece behind you that's of your father there.
MB: yeah my my uncle Vincent Bodé is a portrait painter and he did that my father designed the archway around the outside and then posed for it and my uncle painted it and oils the background has San Francisco in it but my father was still living back east and upstate New York at the time it was painted but my father said put San Francisco behind me and three years later he passed away in San Francisco so at that age 33 you know going on 34 but yeah so he's floating above San Francisco there. It’s come back to me three times this this painting was sold for the funeral costs and then it came back to me again through Kevin Eastman and then then it was I sold it back to Kevin Eastman because there was a lot of money added on to it by my uncle, it's another story but um so I couldn't afford to keep it so I I sold it to Kevin Eastman and the Ninja Turtle creator and and then when his museum folded he gave it back to me so let's come back to me three times so I figured it'd better stay with me till.
KK: exactly, so much serendipity to you and your family, family the things that in circumstances that it's almost like a written book in itself.
MB: mmm things were meant to be sometimes, yeah it feels that way and and you know I get visits you know and dreams and stuff you know like he comes to me and tells me what to do sometimes and you know one time I was writing the book of me I was writing the introduction as Cheech wizard and I thought it was good I thought it was a good you know I was in character and everything but something didn't feel right and that night I had a dream that my father said look Mark as you were when I was around and as you are now you I am Cheech wizard you are the lizard, write as the lizard and and he was like don't make me come back down here again and I wrote is the lizard it felt so good.
KK: Yeah, for real.
MB: felt really good you know like really natural natural you know and there was no weird feelings about it at all he comes down and edits stuff for me. he's a very strong spirit dude.
KK: Dude, that’s just amazing. well she what's your what's your most favored accomplished piece that you've done comic even great if you can really summarize your career up till now whether it's a graffiti piece collaborations like you saying you know for graff writers to illustrators and you know what's, what's the defining what piece for you were your like young super proud of that.
MB: Hmm. I don’t think I could do that. I'm all over the place you know like I feel like the last works that I've done, you know like the the new strips for heavy metal is my favorite right now. Yeah, I when I did a big, I did a big five story Cheech wizard with moss brother and here in San Francisco that was a highlight. I did a Hertford for this thing in Dresden Germany they had the had a mural that they commissioned me to do for a traveling art show and that was my father's junk waffle number one cover that I did in spray can. that was like one of my favorite pieces that I had done up to that point in spray can, it was nice. unfortunately right beginning of this year is like always this year's been so fucked up in so many ways but they were they said okay we're done touring your piece you can have it back now if you pay half half the shipping because it breaks up into five or ten panels you know r and and it just like a ten by fifteen foot mural my best I've ever done and so Kent, Kent said he'd take it to the graffiti museum in Florida and Miami and he paid the other half of the bill you know to ship it, it got lost they lost it somewhere in the ocean. I don't know like I think it got into Miami and customs put a pitchfork through it to see if there's drugs in there, I don't know but whoever it was they made it disappear it just like get rid of this. Like oh it’s a mural too bad, you know like they they just threw it in the ocean.
KK: They don’t see the value in it in the same way.
MB: No yeah, I mean I get some insurance money for it.
KK: yeah, it doesn’t cut it, it doesn’t cut it man.
MB: but still the scene for some time or somebody's somebody over in Dresden said hey can you make this disappear I want this for my kid's room you know, it could have been I don't want to say no no it's at the bottom of the ocean.
KK: Yeah, it sounds far more romantic. It’s a little bit more innocent, in a way. did you feel have you ever done Art Basel and those kinds of shows.
MB: Yeah I did it, twice yeah twice, it was good I mean it's it's a very cliquey you know and there's a lot of people coming in there I I know a little the local artists aren't thrilled about it because you know all these artists hotshots come from all over the world and hog up all the money and and and the fame that comes with with being there but the people that are there we year-round don't get don't get a fair shake sometimes so but I have a great time you know hanging with my peers and and fast cars and stuff like that but yeah I go to Comic Cons you know comic con conventions a lot.
MB: badass man, you know yeah that's part of my income and I'm been able to do that and be able to travel so but I'm used to be working at home and you know yeah, this whole quarantine thing is not new to me.
KK: yeah, that's kind of the same here right.
MB: but, it's at night is when I feel weird do you know like no music no no clubs nope you know we have the bug in a jar thing going on.
KK: you know, you know I find interesting about you mark because it as a, as a character and as an artist is your most certainly a contender like, your your you as an artist you you're constantly pushing the envelope and you recognize a Mark Bodé a piece, you know what I mean, outside of your pops but what's crazy is that you've got such a legacy that's way beyond your life, pretty much do you know what I mean like the the the mystery of the bode empires you're the forefront of it and I just find that so I don't know anyone else that's a lot that has that position do you know what I'm saying.
MB: there has been other sons and daughters that have taken over for their parents.
KK: well from a street culture perspective.
MB: Not street culture maybe not not yet, it's bound to happen we might be one of the first thing I mean cos street art is only yeah, I mean if you want to go all the way back to the cave men day you could get but but as far as like street art being an art being a thing its very new. when my father is definitely one of the founding fathers of of street culture you know hip hop, graffiti the graffiti characters.
KK: there's nobody else no one else can't be touched in fact. let me show you something which is just coming to my mind right the other day my boy Mear, graffiti writer from around here, I've just suddenly remembered, Mear yeah this still this this is my boy, he did it for me while we were here you see that nice and look there's the deep it's still very much it's still a thing, that's my boy Mear, that my man right there.
yeah it's great piece and it's just you know it's just again it just highlights thank thank God for copyright hey?
MB: The thing that I tell people it's like it fine to to do pieces in the streets and one-of-a-kinds you know one-of-a-kind canvases that's okay but when people print stuff you know multiples.
KK: Taking the piss.
MB: Anything from another artists get in touch with the artist and you're on you know it's a it's a family thing and we still own those characters and a lot of people don’t understand, that so like I got it. I gotta tell them you know educate people sometimes you know they just it's good to if you love the characters to get it up and doing your sketchbooks and on the walls and in the street but when when you make skateboards or t-shirts with Cheech on them get in touch with me we'll work out a deal.
KK: yeah yeah, yeah I mean you must I mean not that we need to go into any particular examples of details but you must get that a lot and I guess that just kind of comes with the territory of a of a cultural icon that.
MB: weekly, really maybe not, maybe monthly it's like my wife and I go through it a lot we had to go to red bubble or something and people just got crazy with this stuff they were like take anything bode and and put it on socks shoes whatever you know like shirts hoodies napkins.
KK: mind-blowing just like…
MB: look like and I was like we had to get in touch you know with red bubble and proves that we own the copyrights and and then we were able to shut everybody down but it's only a matter of time before it starts building up again and then we have to go after.
KK: Its mind blowing.
MB: it’s one of the thrills, it’s one of the thrills.
KK: yeah yeah yeah and again it's just this only heightens the fact that it's so what is definitely old news to you and one that keeps on repeating itself like like a bad curry, like anything else that it's it could never happen again you know this is only one well it's this only these characters no one else is doing them and has the same cultural value you know what I mean.
MB: yeah it's I mean I'm giving I've given the time you know like I don't know I dedicated my life to it to him and you know kept it a family business all these years definitely it helps to have new material coming out to keep a property fresh. If I hadn't been around it probably would have fallen into the public domain 30 years ago and it would have been very diversified and and and and bitten and remashed until it's almost unrecognizable and and only a given few would know who've Vaughn Bodé was that's what would happen if he didn't have me to do new material and educate people more travel and and do art shows and keep it fresh you know so that's that's my job and I try to not to keep repeating myself too much you know because it's good you know you can parody yourself as an artist.
KK: Yeah, yeah, I feel that but where do you draw the line which that between your own style and technique and what you like you say you fold into yourself and you're just doing things because it's the thing people expect and it's yeah like you say it becomes parody where's that where is that line because do you know what I mean?
MB: it’s like everybody wants to Cheech you know like everybody wants the lizard everybody wants the Broads you know I I love those guys so you know it's like family to me so I have no problem revisiting them but keeping it fresh you know keeping it a new twist on it it difficulty you know it takes some thought and .
KK: for sure.
MB: or or the opposite to come up with you know with fresh new ways to use the characters and but you know when I'm drawing those those guys I'm very happy you know like just like I'll be grinning for hours I realized my cheeks hurt.
KK: Aw that’s fire I love it.
MB: Like ah man, Cheech is gonna do this now, wait till they see it.
KK: yeah I love it I love it and and we're the same seeing them and the final result you know um I I watch this documentary on John Kay and Ren & Stimpy and the you know the whole animation process of those guys in the characters and the joy that they bring as as personalities you know these these animators they go against the grain back in the early 90s and they create these worlds with two guys two dog in a cat you know I mean.
MB: yeah yeah definitely you know Cheech Cheech was my dad you know like underneath the hat you know and I was the lizard the five year old, six year old kid asking stupid questions to the master that's our relationship that's you know I'm the lizard always stuck in him and a five year old mind state you know like that the IQ of a five year old you know I get laid Cheech you know you know like.
KK: It’s the classic balance of characters, you know what I mean.
MB: I’ll tell you how the kick in the balls thing happened was my father and I used to box when I was a kid and he'd be on his knees on the bed and he had boxing gloves and and I would stand up and I you know be fighting him and and inevitably he'd get the upper hand and and he'd be you know I'd be like and punched all around the bed you like thrown around but whenever I hit him really hard between the legs he’d fall like a tree.
KK: These things happen.
MB: he'd fall and he goes I'm gonna get you and he’s like ahhh and so every time we fight I hit him in the nuts you know again and he he stopped wanting to box.
KK: cos he knew there was a combo. the signature move.
MB: in the nads and so he got revenge by kicking the lizard in the balls in the comics all the time.
KK: oh my god as a get back at you.
MB: yeah yeah.
KK: that is amazing how that can be transferred into the into this other story this other world.
MB: yeah so that's the story of Cheech and the lizard.
KK: Mark it’s been a pleasure bro with all tech problems we’ve had.
MB: the oh yeah yeah so heavy metal number 300.
KK: 300.
MB: this July is the Bodé feature and then I'm doing a a I'm doing an LP when with over-over in UK like a Bodé tributes to regal I don't know if you know of him but he used to record music with snatch and coma yeah well he's doing a bode tribute LP with with yeah with musical pieces dedicated to different characters and I'm doing some of the artwork for the album and it will also be the image will be on there and it's supposed to come out July 31st digitally and it'll come out through band camp.
KK: Wow.
MB: vinyl vinyl only like 500 made or something like that.
KK: oh my god .
MB: that's stuff to look out for you know right the one regal is when it is one of his guys he's worked with.
KK: wow this is gonna be so sick. 31st of July you say? 31st of July?
MB: yeah you should be able to get pre-orders for the album itself and in the digital copies.
KK: I'm gonna keep an eye on for that that's amazing that sounds like okay I can only imagine, its gonna be sick.
MB: Well the whole interior be a Bode fold-out and then the actual album itself will have their art on the on the vinyl.
KK: it's gonna be so sick bro that's gonna be so sick its he gonna be are you gonna come into London at any point I mean I know it sounds a really good cuz quarantined in a way is at the moment it's up and down.
MB: Well that’s way I came onto this show of a if I can dress like that and go under on the airplane I don't think they'll let me on that's the only way I feel safe though damn
KK: hey seriously it keeps you out of trouble.
MB: if I could drive over there.
KK: Bro,need you over here .
MB: we need the scientists right now to figure this out.
KK: create more stories brother to create more stories certainly, mark thank you so much for a look out for that as well guys make sure you checked out mark thank you so much for joining me today that's been a absolute pleasure.
MB: yeah well any time do a follow up later on in the year or something.
KK: sounds great with the follow up once the BS has calmed down the release is out should we do it?
MB: I come out to London all the time man like I've been out there probably a dozen times more than any other place in Europe. a lot of friends here.
KK: That’s dope I thought we normally I have someone sitting here and someone me sitting, there so we'll make sure that we've got the space ready for this one a red carpet would be out with tea in the pot and drinks and fridge.
MB: Yeah, some pints.
KK: some English pints. Get some Smiths and snake bite going.
MB: yeah.
KK: right listen stay lucky won't you yeah man stay lucky , ladies and gentleman the Killa Kela podcast we are going international each and every time big shout out to mark bode inside the place don't forget to share spread the love tell a friend to tell a friend alright stay lucky peace.
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