KILLA KELA PODCAST# 214: DJ Z-TRIP (U.S. PRODUCER / DJ/ MASH UP PIONEER)

 

10 years+ after last seeing each other, the Legend mash up + Club DJ, DJ Z-Trip Steps in for a chat!

This weeks Podcast is with a very good friend of mine, to whom I've travelled much of the world with and have been inspired by ever since I met him. DJ Z Trip is not only a well well rounded DJ producer and creative, he's also a creative and impulsive artist who's drive and ambition has led him to play a part in Hip Hop History.. From Chuck D, to Shepard Fairey/OBEY, to LL Cool J - Z Trip has moved and shaked alongside some of the international greats, whilst crossing over to Rave, EDM, Breakbeat and more with his now legendary Mash up style. This is DJ tutorial 101, this is DJ Z-Trips Podcast!

               

Killa Kela Podcast · with guest DJ Z-Trip (U.S Producer/DJ/Mash up Pioneer)

KILLA KELA: Killa Kela podcast Live and Direct, big shout out to Graffiti Kings. We are direct on zoom. I think we're going to Phoenix, Arizona if I’m right or east… west coast.

Z TRIP: ah nah, man San Diego close… close.

KK: Dammit, San Diego.

Z TRIP: I haven't lived in phoenix in since 2000 which feels like the last time we spoke.

KK: For real but I thought you went back for a piece and then well.

Z TRIP: No, no, no I much loved everybody in Arizona, but I went to L.A. and then I was like I, you know L.A. for 13 years and then I was like, I need to move somewhere in California, close to the water but not particularly L.A. and really it was just because of the traffic, I couldn't deal with the traffic.

KK: So, DJ Z Trip ladies and gentlemen, he’s inside the place.

Z TRIP: By the way yeah, we just dug right into it.

KK: Just dived right in and you've got your beer.

Z TRIP: Yeah man, I was like British accents, I’ve got to get a beer to hear it correctly.

KK: Yeah, yeah, yeah, to balance out. Yeah, that's right.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah if I have the right pint then I can speak the lingo. What’s good man?

KK: Yeah, I’m great man and it's again, it's so good to see you brother. I mean I think the last time we did see each other must have been the shifting gears tour, 2005 or something.

Z TRIP: Something like that man, Jesus yo, that's way too long man.

KK: Bro, Oh, l I think we bucked around to your house in L.A. maybe two or three times but I’m talking like extensively like on tour or something like that.

Z TRIP: Yeah, it was always, based around a tour or a show or something, for sure, so.

KK: What an amazing time, we had, wow.

Z TRIP: Yeah man yeah.

KK: Crazy just crazy.

Z TRIP: Yeah, you know what I love though, every time we would link up I, it was just always like go and we just both knew the position to play sonically. So, you could put us in front of anything, anywhere and we were just we just inherently knew how to sort of make it not only work but like we would both walk away going like oh shit that was still like …yo, that happened, you know what I mean.

KK: Yeah.

Z TRIP: So, I mean, there's very few people that I have that chemistry with I mean, you know relatively speaking, I have it with a lot of people but in general I find that there's very little chemistry between artists like that so… I mean have it with some but you're definitely one of those people like if someone would be like yo Kels wants to hop on the mic right now, I’d be like let's go, let's just like let's go!

KK: I appreciate you saying that, mostly because you know, you're like the mash up don, so you work with variables and sonics and you know, blend and mix and you work very on the cuff you freestyle a lot of your stuff. When I jump into that situation, oh it's it's game over because like, we're from a hip-hop culture we love the freestyle.

Z TRIP: Yeah man, that’s the epitome of it. It’s like I feel like if I don't have enough of that in the diet, I’m not eating well balanced, right?

KK: Yeah, yeah man, it's part of our it's part of our DNA isn't it?

Z TRIP: Yeah, without a doubt.

KK: Trust you to be totally green screened up and ready. Again, technically thinking forward. I knew I didn’t have to worry about you for a second brother.

Z TRIP: Little artifacts popping up here and there If I move too fast.

KK: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all that good stuff, all that good stuff, yeah.

Z TRIP: like I mean because I’m just in the office right now I got like shit background, so I was like let me just slap a logo up and it would look cooler than whatever I got laying around in the house.

KK: Killed it.

Z TRIP: This is where the internet is the strongest so I was like let me just go to that room that's the closest to the to the wi-fi so I was like it's pretty strong here and we should be good to go. It's shit for aesthetics like it looks… it does… it looks like an office.

KK: You're looking good man; you made the call! baby do not play Netflix we need full wi-fi, we need full bandwidth.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah, any neighbours who are have you know jumped onto my wi-fi you know, downloading porn or whatever I was like stop all that stuff just so I could do this. Look at my fingers look at that that's fucking creepy.

KK: That shit’s real, that's like something like a 1960s horror film, what's that webbed guy. You know it's where the magic happened the studios and offices and right now, that's kind of the gameplay right you know, we're not going anywhere, so we're working within. But I’ve always known you as a record creator first I know you're a a good house party DJ and a pioneer at that, but I think the first time I actually saw you you were on um some back jumps old VHS back jumps episode.

Z TRIP: Oh yeah. oh, fuck man, wow yeah that was like the run through Europe. Um yeah, there was all the like hitting all the all the spots and that was like the battle of the year days, like going around and djing the the b-boys circuit and I was catching fame off of cassettes like, I was hustling cassettes back then and some people had heard them, think it may be like a Rocksteady anniversary or a b-boy summit or one of the events out here and because that's where everyone would come from everywhere. The b-boy events were only, there's only like four or five of them right… so yeah everybody from Europe and Asia would come over here to to compete in these events and like we would DJ those things and hustle the tapes and I remember that some people had heard what I was doing and we're like we gotta have him over in Germany and DJ at our events so, I went and I you know they paid for that was like I think it was… yeah that was like one of the first times I ever traveled. it was basically through the B-boy circuit so going over to Berlin and Stuttgart and Cologne and Hamburg, Hanover, like all through Germany, then up to the U.K. All my my first experiences we're going there and like you know on low budget but man they showed so much love and I brought over like 300 cassettes right and I was like trying to hustle them off everywhere. I like made just enough money to like you know to make it work but yeah anytime someone was like “hey we got a radio show or a video thing or whatever”…. I was like “let's do it!” . I was just hyped to be outside of the States doing doing hip-hop, you know. So, all those old videos um it's just young me like experiencing it for the first time, you know it was it was it was a good time man.

KK: And that's that's essentially where you know, from that that angle and that point of view you are doing mixtapes and the the consistency in your club sets, yeah man it's quite easy for you to get catch fame. I say easy, that's a really flippant thing to say but you'll get one coming from, when you've got the tenacity that you have and you're stepping into an arena, like you say the B-boy arena they're like a headstrong die hard, you've got to know your shit to be jumping in there.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah.

KK: As a DJ you killed it because everyone absorbed your DJ sets and rightly so because you had everything ready built. It was made for you to just jump on the throne right.

Z TRIP: Well, I feel like, to be honest and to be fair, I stole a page out of the the founders like Bambada and Kool Hurc and Jazzy J and Flash and a million others, but those guys laid the blueprint for taking music that wasn't necessarily known or built into the the sonic landscape that people had associated. This stuff, there might be the James Browns and the funk and everything else but like all of a sudden Kraftwerk, this German electronic band was in there and it's like what that's weird but it sounds dope, or some Prague rock band or something, they had a really great drum solo so there's all these sort of weird other bands and groups and things outside of the fringe of of funk and groove and an afro beat and like you know movement reggae, like all this movement you know that was predominantly black culture. I mean if you want to boil it down but like sonically black culture music that was the heartbeat and probably 80 percent of this music but all these other little fringe things were fused onto it and I realized that as I was starting to make a little bit of noise in the mid mid early mid 90s, I started to see more and more DJs only gravitating towards the soul and the funk, the the proper breaks. Okay, that's an R&B break, that's a funk break or that's you know if it was a rock break it was a street pretty straightforward sort of rock break or it's like all the classics, Jimmy Castor has just begun or Apache Incredible Bongo Band. But, a lot of them weren't going outside of the fringe and gathering this other stuff and I think there's also sort of a thing of like thinking, that it has to be from the 70s, you know what I mean, it has to be old to be considered classic and and while I subscribed and did all my studying of all these breaks and all these producers and all these different records, I was still like well why can't a record that just came out yesterday be infused into that? Why can't this record that has a really fucking nasty break not be infused? And because some of those beats, when b-boys would hear them, it would be unfamiliar to them and it would kind of rub them wrong for a second because you know if your playing breaks the right way, there's the guitar or the music part that has nothing to do with where it's going. It's about to go to something magnificent but that moment those four or eight bars if you throw it, I’ve had many times where I'd throw some fucking guitar twangy weird thing that was like what I was just grooving you through that and I would get them to stop and they'd look at me and I’d look back at them and be like just wait, and as soon as it would hit they'd be like oh! and then they again, it's like because that whole thing of breathing, you got it, you got to challenge it, you got to breathe new life into these arenas. Because I was starting to go to these events and hearing people just like getting by on playing just the ultimate breaks and beats collections only and those are classics, those are you know you've got to have those in there, there's some of those tracks are just amazing tracks that you have to have in the mix but my thing was bringing you know, this many records in the crate and those were mine that I found, that weren't true and tried and tested in the arena but they were in my local area or I just knew them to be dope breaks. I turned a lot of people on, I remember I found a uh this belly dancer break that I found that was like I remembered all the all other DJ's like what's that?!? It's like that's what you want. I want other DJs to be jocking what I found just like I want to be finding and hearing all these U.K. breaks that I didn't know about, like yeah, I don't know if you remember Lace, DJ Lace, but he was a homie.

KK: Of course, rest in peace.

Z TRIP: Yeah, he was he was one of the first dudes who I linked up with him and his brother Aiden at his house, stay at his house and we'd go digging for records and and he was turning me onto all these brakes. I was turning him onto brakes like and so we had this network of like DJs that were mailing shit to each other, like here let me mail you this cassette, let me mail you this record, if you find one, I'll find one and mail it to you, like that's how it was.

KK: For those who don't know that's like having a WhatsApp group that's like for the higher echelon.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah, it was completely that. It was a club that had to physically mail physical copies of things to other people. But yeah, and I don't mean to just go on and on about it but it was it was a really amazing time because it was my first time being outside of of the bubble of sort of America and the States and that culture and going to another um a whole bunch of different cultures within Europe and everything. And trying different food, meeting different people, seeing different peoples take on graffiti, on b-boys, on hip-hop, hearing German rap for the first time, being like what is this?!? Like you know, just the whole thing of like oh it's outside, this is outside of where it came from because it was also sort of starting to like mellow out a little bit in in the State as far as the passion and I found that at that time Europe really like the graffiti scene in Europe was out of fucking control crazy. they were just crushing it. they took what we had and just turned it into something else. I was like wow!

KK: They kind of shot on the rest of the world like Dame, Loomit, Delta.

Z TRIP: Come on, yeah.

KK: Battered it. But that energy that you brought in that first time around and again just to highlight again it, that’s the depth of this character we're talking about now ladies and gentlemen. It’s fucking DJ Z trip all right, LL Cool J’s DJ, you know, you name it mash-up pioneer. Like your energy that came through on those first ventures, I felt like when it came to that, especially for me being introduced via the BackJumps German because, I was on tour with Vadim at the time when I first saw this and bear in mind, Vadim was also pretty new to me I felt like you were you were in unison with with my perception of what was new and every time I saw you do something like that, at the battle of the year where you were doing cutting-edge breaks, it made the event seem unique. It made the event seem cutting edge. You were gonna and I get it because America, okay I had the backpack thing going on with Raucous but I feel you, it there wasn't that four elements thing going on so when you came over and you were from the States, it was just like wow that's crazy!

Z TRIP: Yeah man that's right. I completely forgot you hosted those fucking things, it's all coming back to me now man. I'm sorry, that's how far away it is. It's like I'm trying it's like when did i when did I meet Kela like where are we? I'm like wait a second I remember him being on the fucking stage like all right this next round, blah, blah, blah….Yeah, that's right you, fuckin… we were… it was just a wild time dude, such a wild time. Fuck!

KK: Yeah and like you you were like one of the first I think you were one of the first outside of Craze. In fact you me and Craze had a session at Miami winter, do you remember that?

Z TRIP: Oh yeah.

KK: you were one of the first people that I actually, you know, chopped it up with. And we let you say spontaneity with us was just like yeah let's just do it now, come on let's go.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah that was that was what I loved is finding other people who not only had the passion for it but were unafraid you know what I mean, like just to dive in because there was a level of that to me is where i felt you know over the years, I've likened this to comedy and and there's so much similarities in what we do and what comedians do.

KK: Explain that.

Z TRIP: Yeah, so I mean just to finish the thought though, it's about once you get to a point where you're on stage and you're riffing and you're making it up as you go along and you're playing with the audience you know, you have your set that you have planned but this is you like really you know flexing your craft to me that's what it the epitome is like You can't get any closer to your source than that. But to take a step back the analogy have is that for DJs you know, you're up there, it's just you and the audience, so already it's one person and a group of people and you're giving your art through a medium that is kind of established and people know it to be what it is and so if you can push the boundaries in that medium and and stand out and have a voice and have an angle. It's crucial. Yeah, so for me people like George Carlin probably one of my favorite comedians ever because…

KK: Yo you introduced me to George Carlin, we were watching on the bus.

Z TRIP: Oh really?

KK: Yeah, you introduced me.

Z TRIP: That's awesome that's so amazing. Yeah, so I mean like you know, comedians… I would learn so much from them, because of their approach, comedic timing, waiting for a joke to land and the laughing to come back and if you time it right you can get another bump out of that laugh if you say the right thing and inflections and understanding pacing and understanding dropping a seed of something and coming back to it later and storytelling you know, all of that. So that's, I mean on stage there's a million of those things coupled with the fact that as a DJ if you go and you play, say I go and play Seattle and I come back there and I play Seattle again in six months, I gotta remember this set I did the last time I was in Seattle because I can't do old material I've got to come with new materials. So it's important to understand like you can't do the same set twice in the same spot. So understanding coupled with if you get new music or new tunes you gotta infuse new bits into your comedy just like you would you know with a new song. If there's some something that's going on socially, hey you know everyone's talking about Covid now, well okay you gotta have your Covid jokes or hey uh this is you know Trump, you gotta have your Trump lines, whatever. So it's like to be able to take things that are happening current and flip them and but doing it in a very fast pace is crucial, coupled with hecklers you know, the people who want to request a song or are fucking with you, you got to figure out a way to to neutralize them but also not like turn the place off, you know. If a joke bombs you got to have another joke that you know, same thing with the tune you got to have the right tune, if that tune bombs.There's a lot of elasticity in in the performance as a DJ that you would have as a as a comedian, so I studied a lot of the comedians. And even taking a step further, we travel alone, we're in a hotel, we're you know, I've actually been on flights with other comedians where it's like you know I've seen certain people in the same circuits, you know what I mean, whether I know them or not it's like oh yeah, that's so and so oh that's so and so and it's like it's just very interesting. The dive bars versus like the Netflix special versus the you know…. there's just there's so much to it and so I learned a lot of that. So being able to you know hang out with Dave Chappelle and and do a juke joint with him. And shout out to DJ trauma who who connected those dots but like that stuff.

KK: Crazy

Z TRIP: You know Russell Peters, you know back in the day, I remember I met Carlos Mencia way back before, um you know all the controversy with him, but like just just connecting and speaking to different comedians and understanding their… you know, I'd always ask them questions because it was very much about like picking up on. So that's that's that's sort of it's something I carry around I study them a lot. I try and pay attention to everybody there's certain comedians so I think kill it and it's also about you know socially saying something, you also want to you know if you play the right tune, at the right time you could trigger something and you kind of want to get people to think. So, there's…. I've done that a lot with my music with playing stuff around you know, the Obama days when I did mixes around that sort of like getting people to sort of engage a little bit more than just you know why the chicken cross the road kind of you know, anybody can do that kind of shit, so it's like…

KK: oh yeah.

Z TRIP: There’s a lot to it. I mean not to get super deep on it but…

KK: No,no, no, it's your podcast my brother, it's your podcast.

Z TRIP: It’s yours.

KK: you're right this is a uniting of old friends, brother do you feel like…

Z TRIP: by the way speaking of comedians, while we're on comedians. We have a common thread to Patent Oswald, do you remember Meredith?

KK: yeah Meredith Salenger. Totally.

Z TRIP: yeah, Meredith married Patton Oswald and the other day we were… I was on something, whatever it was…. so, she hit me up she was like “Hey!” like I think I was hustling some new hoodies or something and somehow our paths crossed on twitter and she's like you may not remember but, I met you with Kela back in the day at the show and I was like oh!!! That’s how! I'm like that's how because I always saw her face was like I know she's an actress but I'm like yeah, she looks like more than like I think… I feel like I've met her or something and she solidified it because I completely spaced it but um yeah small world. She was like yeah I met you with Kela. I was like oh that's right Kela. so just small world that happens a couple months ago so, shout out to Meredith.

KK: and then I hit you up now yeah Meredith is a don she was in Dawson's Creek or something from you know that wasn't that old soap opera back in the day. Wow in that small world. That's crazy and she's married to a comedian?



Z TRIP: to Patton Oswalt yeah who's another like another comedian in the greats of comedians that I you know I'm always trying to pay attention and pick you know just just absorb. I used actually one of Patton's um bits in one of my first streams where he did a little a Covid thing, like right at the onset of this whole thing where he was outside doing sort of stand-up comedy to like the neighborhood and there's like one person walking by it was just very sort of you know dry but funny moment but, sort of like you know just a sort of like oh Shit and I use it at the beginning of one of my sets for Insomniac and I think that's kind of maybe how it came back around like, so just whatever full circle moment anyway you were saying….

KK: that's crazy no, no, we'll stay on this the serendipity of it all like yeah, with the world being the way it is I mean i'm not sure how connectivity isn't? like it's like you know what two degrees of separation of that but there was a real you know six degrees back in the day, probably only as far as six years ago was a real thing. Like now when I think back to how that connectivity came about. how we connected. And in your you spoke of your tenacity um at the start and how green you were with the whole European scene you know, there's a lot of there's second and third hand conversations that we never hear about or that you never saw me watch your VHS video or you never know who and just all of a sudden in a weird way those small little incrementations make for these situations to occur isn't that crazy?

Z TRIP: No I love it, I think it's great and it's interesting because something could sit and lay dormant for years, Meredith is a good example like and it just sort of came back around recently. But the connections of these things and and it just makes you realize sort of how how connected we really are and impressions sometimes when you feel you're doing something that you know this goes out to any creative it's like sometimes, you feel like you're putting your best work out there and and it's it's just not getting received but sometimes…. you know think of any any artist that you know over the last 20 years that made a song that didn't do shit when it hit but somebody picked it up and put it in a commercial or all of a sudden, it's part of the the dialogue and and is now a classic and/or you know, think of you know any song that Kanye sampled or Jay-z sampled or whoever that's like Fat Boy Slim, Praise You, like that song like you know the original of that was you know that will probably would have laid dormant had he not went in and recharged that and it became a thing. And then, it's in all these commercials now it's a dialogue and people you know that kind of thing is as an artist you just have to think that sometimes it's just about get the work out, don't worry about it. don't worry about who it hits. Just do the best work you can and eventually people will get on board. But don't make it about like oh likes or or make it about I've got to hit this certain goal for it to be you know warranted as good or bad. Like that shit is you know. But I think that's kind of the concept that I know I come from…. I assume you do too, and I think anybody before the era of likes and/or any metric of how a a project would be received outside of you know, I hustled a couple tapes or whatever, but I think that you have to not worry about that because the good shit will always rise to the top. And i think timeless music if you make music that's really good, it'll just be timeless forever. And that to me is kind of… that's always been the goal. Let's not try and be so concerned with like capturing the zeitgeist sonically but like let's just make it dope where I could play this in 20 years. I mean there's still fucking songs that I play that are 20, 30 years old that sound like they came out 10 years from now,you know.

KK: Yeah, I'm stuck on the process. I love, I am addicted to it and yeah, I think that harks back to a time where uh yeah like you say the algorithm, the analytics, the adwords and none of that. No, it shouldn't make any difference because if you're loving the journey, the chase was better than the finishing line anyway you know what I mean.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah well, I've always said that, you know I see people sometimes try and cut the corners of trying to get to the end result the quickest and while in some instances that's important, I feel like the journey is where you really get the.... context is everything. So, like understanding you know, walking the same path that they the people did before you and receiving the knowledge and getting those morsels like that's, you know there's something about stopping and smelling the roses for that moment that makes the whole thing come together. And I feel like if you're not making art with that in mind, you're missing a big part of it you know what I mean? And certain people sometimes they'll go their whole career and wonder why didn't it connect or why didn't it happen. It's like well, maybe you never took time through your process to like get that because … once you unlock that you kind of can't go back. I feel like you can't unsee that. And I'm trying to constantly be in contact with that higher power…The inspiration, the third eye, like I’m always trying to connect to that because to me that's where my best ideas come from. It's not when I plan shit, it’s the spontaneity. And think of all you know, going back to what we're talking about earlier, you know being able to riff and go out there and just come up with shit. Sometimes you're doing something and because you're in the zone and because the universe is speaking through you, you come up with some fucking crazy thing, you're like I would not have came up with that on my own had I not been forced into this position and now that's I take that and I put that in my bag and that's a that's a new tool, that's a new weapon I have when I have to, you know…. oh shit! that nothing's working let me go into my bag and pull out that thing that you know, it's like you know what I mean.

KK: Yeah, I do know what you mean, I have those epiphanies fairly frequently and there's nothing beats it in the world. It's almost like you unplug for a second mentally you go into this like meditational doing something and yeah you never leave once you've got that rhythm; it never leaves you.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah and just being able to receive that stuff and be open to it and and foster that sometimes. Like even in the most uncomfortable situations, I think I've learned how to harness that a little bit and make it work towards my benefit. And even to the detriment sometime of the team around me where I feel so strongly about it and everyone's like that'll never work or that's bullshit, whatever and then I do it and then it connects and then everyone's like he's a genius! It was genius! It’s like you fuckers, call it what it is. but whatever, I mean you know it's gotta ultimately at the end of the day I've gotta stand behind it and feel good about it and not say that every endeavor I've done has been 100. But I feel my batting average is is pretty high in the sense that like I have a high threshold. If I think its dope chances are, I think my fans will think its dope too and I wouldn't want to give them anything that I didn't feel hit a certain mark you know.

                           

KK: you've got a hardcore out there of the regions of hip-hop fan base, you've got like this… they're z trip fans and I learned this firsthand when being on the road with you like there… it's hard to define them apart from their Z Trip fans, you know I mean.

Z TRIP: I'm curious describe a Z Trip fan, through your lens because this isn't like a loaded question, I’m actually curious.

KK: I think they're they're in that kind of Flying Lotus meets ninja tune meets you know they have a very uh amoeba music sensibility to them.

Z TRIP: That's a great analogy, you're doing fine. hang on a second… hang on a second… hang on…no we will let him live. No that's great, I think that's awesome an amoeba mentality go on…

KK: Yeah, yeah but you still have the hip-hop you still have the hip-hop crew um shifting gears was crazy as a tour, a because you had like Black Sheep, you had Busdriver you had me for half a stint you had. I mean you had a collection of all different characters that were so devoted hip-hop, you you're able to keep your hip-hop roots but and still be able to make music for your audience it's almost like you're like the hip-hop spokesperson for them that's crazy how'd you feel about that, Z?

Z TRIP: well look, whatever it is it's hard to quantify and put into words but I feel it you know, I feel that I feel the connection to it but you know the way I look at it really i mean ultimately to be honest I kind of feel like I still feel it to this day, I’m very much an outcast you know what I mean by default, I’m a little bit of an anomaly in a sense because you have certain DJs who define a sound or a a style of music you know, Ronnie Size, Dillinger you know what I mean… like I can say this about certain you know SHY FX whatever there's certain DJs who like you have a sound and a style that is so connected to a certain thing that I couldn't look at you and go… but I also know SHY FX to be an amazing house DJ or I also know SHY FZ to be an amazing jazz DJ, you know…. not to take away that could happen because it totally could and maybe I’m completely unaware, it's just never been brought to my attention so therefore I kind of take certain artists and go you know you're this and you're great at that, but to a degree it just lives into that world. And I think on one hand it's you're bigging that person up by saying you are the epitome of this style to me. You represent the style so hard that I can pin your name on the style and it's synonymous but it's harder to take that same name and pin it on another style of like you know whatever it is. Find somebody that's a completely different style and pin somebody on that. And for me I try to feel like the outcast part of me is that it always mattered for me to be able to at least hang in each room you know, each stage at the rave. I wanted to know that I could go there and not just play but hammer it you know what I mean? like I want to be able to know that I could play a house set and crush it. Know that I could play a a dubstep set and crush it. I want to know if I could draw a bass or jungle set and crush it. I want to know that I can play a hip-hop set and crush it. a down tempo set and crush it so like for me learning and absorbing all these different styles of music was very much about… it's just music and I want to represent each thing so the outcast is that I never really… with the exception of hip-hop which by the way if you really step back and look at it as a prism, hip-hop is sort of like the the thing that everything could go through and sort of shoot-out but it doesn't necessarily work the same way you know, I mean if you turn it so hip-hop to me was the conduit that allowed me to find all these different styles of music but bring them sort of through a hip-hop lens and therefore it allowed me to sort of go into all these different genres and fuck with them a little bit harder. and I guess the best way I could feel like I could equate it to is I saw somebody post the thing the other day of like edm twitter or whatever and they had like a lunch room with like eight tables and there was like at each table they put like three different artists and like which table would you sit at? and like they're very like this is really dark you know rhythm… this is very sort of you know soulful house this is really sort of like… and it was all these different styles of of edm and I thought I could sit at any one of those fucking tables man. I consider any but the thing is when people think of me they don't think of me as being a don of a certain sound because I don't live in that exclusively so therefore I feel like I’m a little bit of an outcast where um sonically you know I’m doing my own thing and I know that I’ve got a fan base who who are also outcasts in a weird way who like all different styles of music and therefore they feel they can connect with my energy and my lens and sort of and it's a little bit of like you know we're we might have our own table but we could also sit at every seat at the table but we're also like not necessarily considered to be you know the don of any one thing. and that's kind of like you know you're like a little bit of a roving sort of outcast, you know bastard child and that you don't really have a home hip hop is my home but hip-hop is also so interesting in the way it is broken into like you know. I consider myself to be a very blueprint of hip-hop DJ you know, but like would I you know… could I hang with a 2020 hip-hop DJ sonically? I guess I could… mentally, I don't know if I really could because I don't really … I’m not as engaged with like whoever the the hottest latest is just because it's not my flavor. but like if I needed to do a set I could dig around and and make it be dope you know what I mean? but the the thing is I I’ve also never liked to be committed to one style because I’m very interested in music in general and different music makes me feel different ways. And sometimes i want to you know I want to hear heavy metal when I’m snowboarding. Sometimes I want to hear heavy drum and bass if I’m lifting weights or something sometimes, I want to hear chill atmospheric shit if I’m laying out by the pool. like it's it always fucks me up to when I would see people who are like dubstep only and you're like how do you? tell me you listen to Dubstep, like you wake up in the morning and when you're trying to chill? I mean not knock that, I’m not knocking that in any way, that's dope but that's you if you connect with it that hard. But to me I feel like music is about connecting with all different styles and so I’ve been preaching that and trying to fuse that into my mix since day one because i feel like there are other outcasts out there like myself who feel and ride that way. But there's also a time too if you think about like early sort of pre-mash-up days where you know if you were into rock music and you went to a hip-hop club and you played some rock music in the hip-hop club people would look at you and be like what the fuck?

KK: Yeah, yeah totally.Z TRIP: and the same thing would be the flip side if you went to like you know electronic club, someplace that was playing like industrial music and you played like you know a Run DMC cut people were like what the fuck? So, there was this moment back in the day where if you didn't commit to one style you were looked at as like a weirdo, so I’ve always hung out with the weirdos. I’ve always had you know multicultural friends, different races, gay, straight, man, woman, transgender whatever the fuck it is you



KK: you gotta have your tribe, they have to believe in the tribe you know what I mean?

Z TRIP: so, I feel like you know that's something that the people who follow what I do are extremely empowering and giving me the ability and the power by following what I’m doing. They give me the ability and power to continue down these roads. Sometimes I’m like you know if I committed to one style and really hammered out two or three records in one style chances are I could you know I could probably get associated with that sound, tour that circuit, whatever.

KK: But would your crowd get it?

Z TRIP: Well yeah, I mean they'd ride with it but like they'd ultimately know oh he's just rocking with this for a minute and I don't ever want to you know, I don't think I ever really want to do that for more than one project at a time.

KK: For sure.

Z TRIP: and then and here's the testament to it. Everybody was always like yo, hey man if you do the, you know, whatever at the time, if you do a be more version of that you know that'll get more airplay. it's like just because that was hot at the time. I never really subscribed to that so much, but it was still able to play Coachella four times, play Lollapalooza twice play, Electric zoo, Shambhala, big day out whatever all these different festivals, also you know open up for Linkin park. Play a rock set for a rock crowd. Play a bass set for a bass crowd. Play a reggae set. I opened for steel pulse, maybe a year ago. These kinds of things where I can bob and weave and also still work with all the hip-hop heads I mean, yeah touring with LL and being able to like to commit totally to you know being straight up on some boom bap, hip hop shit. The ability to bob and weave through these different sonic landscapes to me is really where I wanted to be. and the fact that I’ve been rewarded by sticking to my guns from early on has been great and I will say this that you know early on when sometimes you would dump the dance floor and people look at you weird, but I stuck to my guns of like no it's all music you guys just don't get it yet. When the massive things start to happen, I think people start to open up they’re their eyes and ears to it but now look across the board and people are just you know, music is celebrated, and people finally got there I just saw it way way early you know.

KK: yeah, yeah that’s right.

Z TRIP: so that's right for what it's worth.

KK: yeah, for sure, completely and utterly do you, I put this is there a method because I’ve always felt and this may may not be the case, I always felt you're a good man of strategy. Like you had whether it was in business or whether it was in selection, whether it was in genre, the decision of the person that you worked with, and stuff like that. Not that in any way it's contrived at all, I just felt, I found in especially talking to you and being in your company so much, I’ve I found the way that you think really interesting and I’m just wondering whether there was there's ever been um you know this extra layer of thinking that you have, that you know the strategy of being a pioneer or something or the strategy of you know dominating a genre or releasing a record and that you know it takes a certain somebody to get to the level you are. So, you know I’m wondering if there's there's a strategy, has there ever has been a strategy to any of these things?

Z TRIP: well, I’d be lying if if I said there wasn't, but I don't think it's as flushed out and rinsed out to the tee you know, maybe it is per you know particular project, like something that's you know has a short shelf life of like I’m gonna do this thing in a in a month and so I have to meticulously calculate my way to get it to be what it needs to be, so when it happens it's amazing, but once it sort of ran its course it just lives in people's memories, it's like a moment. so, there's a strategy in doing you know knocking down certain events but…

KK: because you've gotta know when to jump off the ride as well. because if it is…

Z TRIP: Sure. sure yeah, yeah. There’s a level. I think a lot of it is instinct you know, a lot of it is also sort of like hoping for the best but planning for the worst you know what I mean. Being extra prepared, you know a buddy of mine told me you know, I live by certain sort of codes that are like in inherently embedded into my DNA now. You know when you hear somebody give a like a thing, you're like I totally fuck with that um there's the seven P’s. do you know about the seven P’s.

KK: No, do tell me.

Z TRIP: proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

KK: oh shit.

Z TRIP: so, the seven P’s right, proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance. and this is something that I’d been doing but didn't really, it wasn't quantified in a way and a buddy of mine, a buddy of mine, joe who was was the tour manager for shifting gears.

KK: oh my god I remember joe.

Z TRIP: dude that was Joe. that was one of Joe's he brought that to me I was like oh shit, that's right and I it was something I had done but I never was able to quantify it, that's something, I live by you know uh hope for the best plan for the worst. um you know those kinds of mantras where you just like and also committing to like when you do something and it makes you feel a certain way kind of remember that first feeling right and you may go and like go down the rabbit hole of like tweaking snares and mixing things whatever but like always be able to step back and look back at it from a first impression because that's crucial, the first instinct is like, oh sometimes the demo is actually better than the finished product. I think a little bit of self-editing, always knowing where it's like you know, being able to throw a whole bunch of shit in it and then listen to it for a minute and go subtract, subtract, subtract, too much. too much, too much and getting the balance right. but all those are things that are I guess part of the strategy if you will, is just applying the things that I’ve noticed over the years to you know, brought something. you know by the way LL is an amazing mentor you know I mean like just rolling with him for the past whatever eight, nine, ten years I picked up so much game from conversations but also just seeing how he rolls and just just just being quiet in the room and just listening.

KK: how does he roll?

Z TRIP: how does he roll? with style and finesse.

KK: yeah

Z TRIP: with the panther you know. he's the guy's, it is non-stop you know what I mean and but like one of the things that his grandmother used to always say to him and it's I’m trying to remember if I can remember the exact verbiage, but the the I want to say it's even maybe a passage, but it's no matter big or small, do it right or don't do it at all, something to that effect. maybe i haven't nailed it exactly but it's that's.

KK: dropping gems on this one my brother.

Z TRIP: but listen that one is so crucial because it's like if you're gonna do something do it until it's done. don't fucking, do it because oh I check out you know. it's like people who are like oh I’m working but oh I’m I just clocked out I’m done. No, it's never done until the job is done and when the job is done then you check out and sometimes that puts you way over the board as far as overtime. Sometimes you get it done sooner but if you're gauging your involvement on the amount of time you're putting in versus the end result, you're doing it wrong. And so knowing where you know, sometimes people get fatigued on a project because it's not panning out, it's not giving them the result they want yet or they… like to me, I’ve never, these are things that I already inherently felt but he had a way to quantify it, soit's like nice you know. I mean I thought I find that I’m I felt like I was on the right track with a lot of things but hearing people say them or picking up you know, seeing somebody else do it makes me go there now I have a way to to verbalize it. you can internalize it you've always had it I’ve.

KK: that's why I queried the strategy thing, but it's actually more like you say it's more spidey senses. and that's not inherent, I don't think that, that can be just picked up you know that intuition of work ethic is would like was your mom and dad? were they quite… were they banging to their work? they did a lot of what they did about rub off on you?

Z TRIP: I mean maybe probably in some capacity but I think it was more I realized that when I started getting into into music and art my whole thing was how am I able to do this all the time? and that's the payment. what you make financially is irrelevant. I mean it's relevant but it's irrelevant to the fact that I’ve been able to create and be around and absorb and process and digest and and um you know be synonymous to a degree with art and that was the goal. so to me I realized that whatever it took and you know and it goes back to little life lessons of like you know you're digging for records and my whole concept was if I see a record and it's in my hands and I know it might be something I’ll never see again. I need to get this record at all costs because I may never see it again and this is adding to my to my pile my legacy, my work, my this matters to me more than going to see that movie or going and getting a burger or going whatever. like this matters so sacrifice now put it in the crate and eventually you know maybe I make a beat out of that record or somehow that record you know the more records. I have the more my set can be I get paid off of that that's where the payment comes so this sacrifice was always about whatever. I have to do to stay here working. it didn't matter and when that becomes the focus when the payment is being able to live and work in this environment and that's success then everything else is just a bonus and help push you along. But that was always sort of my my approach right? It was like you know from your first gig, it's like you know, you learn how to negotiate, you learn how to get paid for what you're worth, you learn how to you know eventually equate your time and energy towards something but ultimately you know, you've got to be able to jump at any moment, at any opportunity you know? I mean you got to be able to do that coupled with you've also got it you know, put yourself in uncomfortable situations a lot in order to learn the lesson. you know again going back to comedians like go up there you got a bomb, what great comedian hasn't fucking bombed? Like, come on man you got you've got a bomb a couple times to learn. Same thing with clearing a dance floor it's the same shit. that's the equivalent of bombing you go up all this intention and you go I got my shit mapped out and you play it two songs in you're like this isn't working, fuck… what do I do you know there's such similarities in that.

KK: yeah, yeah for sure.

Z TRIP: so but again getting spanked and learning you know what I mean and coming back and just being able to go back up on that stage being able to come back in front of people and have a a group of people who see your body work and go I like that I’m going to commit to that I’m going to rock with that and me that success. It doesn't matter that you know you've made millions of dollars or you have your your number one hit singles or whatever you know there's you know to me, I don't I’ve never I guess that's another thing of my not my strategy but like what is success and what's what's a marker you know to me having people receive it and love it even if it's a small amount depending on the project is means more to me than putting out something and and the masses loving it .Now I’m not against that but I also feel like I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but you know 60 of the time the masses aren't really a good judge of like quality you know. I mean just because McDonald’s has served x amount of billions of burgers doesn't mean that their burgers are superior to other people's burgers.

KK: No, you’re right.

Z TRIP: and in fact, the more superior burger is usually the person who has a little shop around the way that only can bang out so many because they're handcrafted. So quantity over quality like I think we've gotten to that point so.

KK: We sure have there, definitely.

Z TRIP: it's funny man. it's and it's, I don't even mean to pick on the dude but because I have nothing against him but it's just kind of funny, I was coming across like I’ll screenshot tweets every so often. I think one of the last, not last times but like early on, one of the first times I should say that, I played uh or fuck, I don't remember when it was, somewhere in the 2000s. I did um an insomniac rave or whatever and you know at the end of the raves or any of the shows you always check your twitter and see like oh so-and-so “guys found this new DJ or whatever” and one of the ones I screenshotted. I almost want to make a shirt because I think it's just so amazing but it's this chick who was like “I’m so glad we went to see Z trip instead of David Guetta” and it was like and that's all it said but it was just like it's so awesome to see because yeah, not knocking David Guetta. He's made a fucking million hits and people love him and I even like some of his tunes but the the idea of being able to sort of look at it and go well look you know just because there's these people who are at the top, that everybody knows that are household names doesn't necessarily mean that’s the flavor that I want to be up in there. Because it's a, I feel like it's a whole other world that to to live and breathe in that world. I’ve never really identified with bands and some of my favorite bands some of my favorite music that I will listen to till I’m dead are bands have never even broken into that world, that's right not to say that world is bad, it's just that you know the masses are not necessarily to me the the best judge. You know they another sort of lens to look at things through.and I take it for what it's worth but what is core to me you know there's bands that… Meat Beat Manifesto, Jack Dangers. I love him love everything he's fucking put out. I’ve collaborated with the dude I think he's a genius, will he ever make a top 10 song? Maybe not, but I will always look for a Jack Dangers record you know what I mean? And I’ll always be curious about what he's doing because … De La soul same thing it's like there's certain groups that I will just always.

KK: Gravitate towards.

Z TRIP: and so, the idea of masses being the the benchmark to hit you know it goes back to sitting at all the tables like all the tables in the you know, what conversation is happening at every table in that lunchroom versus what's the conversations happening with the with the weirdos you know with the outcasts. I’m usually a little more concerned about… that's where the like I want to have those conversations because it's it's not you know.

KK: I feel you; I feel you. I feel like .

                                 

Z TRIP: I’m I hope I’ve explained this right because I don't want to bash it, especially either like it's not about that you know

KK: No you've smashed it, smashed it. I’ve come to the conclusion that I always have gravitated to underground stuff and you know below the radar stuff and I think maybe um nowadays more so I become a little bit more rigid to the fact, that I recognize a commercial song, some commercial songs are great like but but yeah I almost you know you get the hype on a movie when it's launched and everyone goes to see it? I like to see it like a year later once the hypes died you know what I mean?

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah yeah.

KK: You know it's not my bag, you know what I mean.

Z TRIP: Yeah well I think it's it's I’ve realized especially from a DJ’s perspective is you know having to sometimes play these songs that are… I know work for the dance floor but don't necessarily I don't connect with, I would you know there's a there's a part of me that would rather be and especially I think even more so now with with the environment we're in, you know where look I’m not in front of a a crowd of people at a bar where.

KK: Yeah, they're gonna ask for a request or some shit.

Z TRIP: Yeah it's like the people who are watching my streams are there to see me so the filter is all, it's like I can just go right to yo, guys we're gonna do this today or hey this is where we're gonna go and it's just way more of a connection and I don't have to worry about so it's like it's kind of nice I’m very curious to see once things start happening where we go back out again how much that works .

KK: How many sticks to their guns.

Z TRIP: Yeah well just just also also just the community… like the community of like, not even so much stick to your guns but like how will you know the Becky’s and the and the Karen’s who are like play the you know “ Play Wet Ass Pussy”

KK: Yeah.

Z TRIP: Is that even gonna like you know how weird you're gonna sound and look now?

KK: it's gonna be crazy.

Z TRIP: You know once like the environment of like okay you just sort of if that's your main go-to tune that's your first song you want to hear then.

KK: That's fucked.

Z TRIP: Out of all the songs you could hear yeah that's the one you want to hear? it sort of paints you in a picture of like you know and especially if the masses that are there have leveled up musically which I kind of feel like we're doing to a degree now.

KK: Because I feel like the majority is slowly becoming the minority.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah you're saying it better than I could say exactly exactly that.

KK: Wow that's crazy to think, I’ve never thought about that but you're right and also the integrity of other DJs if they're if their go-to tune happens to be one of those you know those sorts of songs then that kind of like disposes a whole year's worth of pro campaigning doing the thing they want to do on their own private live streams that you know have created such foundations, that I think people will be second guessing where they're going to be performing in future that's what I think as well.

Z TRIP: Yeah yeah well also I think fans too you know like do I want to go see this person because I feel like I’m going to get a real sense of them you know or am I going to go see them and I have to sort of every three songs I get to hear them? But I have to hear it through the filter of the environment and like and it's an it's a weird situation because you know commerce is definitely matters especially if you haven't been working you know what I mean? Like it matters you got to get paid for something and sometimes that bar is like it's where you're going to get your first paycheck because it's easy you know what I mean. But I think if you this in this environment that we're in to me if you've done it right even though it doesn't it's not financially lucrative and hasn't been over the course of it, if you've done it right it will translate to a closer knit community. And people who are a little bit more connected and are hanging on your every moment sonically and care and are invested, versus you know you trying to find those like. it's funny to me like the more I progress and do these shows and streams and just in general and interacting with with people the more the connection matters to me more than anything . I would rather I’d rather have a smaller real genuine community of people than the masses who the genuine community is there but they're feeling like they're not necessarily getting their thing because those people are going to come back show after show up to show and the other people in the fringe the concept of like I’m going to woo all these people in maybe you will maybe you won't but it doesn't fucking matter if they come cool if they don't that's cool too but it's super crucial to.

KK: Keeping their attention.

Z TRIP: Take care yeah, it's super crucial to take care of the people who who have been rocking with you from day one and I’m very aware of that. I try my hardest to like never to take that for granted or give them anything that's not genuine or real and to be honest like that's the thing that matters to me the most and and I feel like I’ve kind of taken a a page out of like bands like the Grateful Dead ,you know never really had a radio hit but like

KK: Sustainability.

Z TRIP: Had huge following and the environment took care of itself and it was very self-sufficient. it was very you know there was definitely plenty of flaws as well but like somehow this movement was able to continue to move forward, based around people wanting to see this movement happen and to me that's way more important and I’m way open to people wanting to be part of like the you know the island of misfit toys. Like we're all you know we're all outcast inherently twisted broken, you know weird in some capacity but like there is a place for everyone, if you like all these different styles of music and can't feel like you can't break into the into that one community because you'll always have a foot in another community, it's like that's what this is kind of here for. If you're into music, if you love dope music, hopefully you're rocking with me because that's kind of my approach and I’m always open to to having those conversations and learning you know. How many times I’ve had fans turn me on this shit where I’m like, yo thank god you I wouldn't have known about this.

KK: You turned me on to Magnetic Man before Magnetic Man came out that whole that whole dubstep EP with Skream.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah, just that was you, I need air that tune that was the big tune.

KK: yeah and I remember you cutting up to it in a sound check was it hard fest we were at did we do hard fest.

Z TRIP: Yeah yeah probably it might have been one of those

KK: and yeah you're cutting up in the sounds like what the because the mix was so loud and you were just totally in the zone bro.

Z TRIP: Yeah man well some of the it's funny because some of those songs man someone and still to this day there's a couple of producer dudes that I’ve I’ve been listening to like they're making the most hip-hop rooted feeling music .

KK: Right, yeah

Z TRIP: Sonically it might not sound like hip-hop but it's so b-boy.

KK: Energy.

Z TRIP: and it's so and AHHH! I wanna lose my fucking mind. Dude, I love that! I love that! and they'll never be labeled as that but that's the energy, I think I’m trying to find in any song from any genre is like that give me that fucking, AHHH!

KK: You know yeah, you want to put you on the goosebumps, like it's …hey listen can I just interview right now… when it comes to records you have got so many records, when you're talking about collecting these things because you know, I remember coming around your studio man. It was the first time I’d ever been around some, I mean you know and I’ve gone around Mr. Thing's place you know he's like a big record collector, yeah bro like you were just like stocked the fucked up you had you were just a to z. There was stuff on the floor and you know I remember we did that actually we're gonna have to put that mix on that we did I can't remember it was for… do you remember that thing?

Z TRIP: Oh it was like the New Year's thing we did or something.

KK: No, there's another one we did we had lean back and snoop and all that we you were cutting out.

Z TRIP: Oh man yeah yeah.

KK: Yeah, I’m gonna have to put that on as part of the trailer man.

Z TRIP: Oh, that’s funny man, no… well that was that was me going like oh I have a couple of these acapellas if you did the beats and I scratched acapella, that could be kind of dope, so it was just like yeah here let's rip off of this I think we banged it out in an hour or two or something.

KK: yeah, we did. I mean yeah I think we did three takes of or something without an edit, without an edit at all .

Z TRIP: yeah yeah.

KK: Cold, cold.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah I love that stuff but yeah man well records are the lifeblood to it like, so like I still collect, and I still have you know in the studio and and everything there's still records everywhere. But like again it just boils down to, I love music man. I love you know different styles you know, I want goosebumps but whether it's b-boy raw or whether it's super chill and like tears rolling down my face you know what I mean. I want it to connect because music has been able to help me heal and process and learn and it's connected all my dots. it's introduced me to everybody I’ve ever known, it's the basis to everything I do, so always feeding into that like that that requires more attention to me than anything and you know, it's funny when you know, it's not funny, it's actually kind of sad but you think about right now it's like anybody who's doing music is struggling and to me music and art is you know when you talk about things that are essential.. you know essential workers or essential you know, you need food ,you need water, you need health care, you need music, to me is an art, you know what is everybody doing when they're sitting home, they're listening to music or they're watching movies that's art, that's stuff that people are creating and like imagine if you were going through this pandemic and you had no outlet.

KK: Oh my god .

Z TRIP: To connect with anything or to diffuse all the tension you know what I mean, like the fact that there's all these DJs putting it out there for nothing you know what I mean, like for subscribers or for donations like you know. I am being one of them. it's like I haven't really done a gig since February man I haven't you know I mean, who knows when I’ll be in front of a crowd again. I’ve done some streams here and there and whatnot but like, I feel like all of these artists who are putting out their energy and helping out everybody around them you know it's just interesting that a lot of people don't see that as I would say more so in the states.

KK: As a lifeline .

Z TRIP: Yeah they don't see it as an importance and to be able to keep those people surviving and in motion because they're people's therapy .

KK: For sure.

Z TRIP: You know what I mean and like you take that away or you know and it hearkens back to me earlier times in America when they took funding out of music in schools and art and schools and art programs and and you know if you look back and you look at any of the cultures like they always held their artists up high and took care of them and I feel .

KK: the same is happening here in the U.K. man

Z TRIP: yeah, it's an artist…art in general is um, is suffering because the thing that we would do in sharing the art was the ability to share it in an open forum you know around around the campfire.

KK: Yeah

Z TRIP: You know there is no campfire, there is no drum circle, there is no community, it's the best you can do is on streaming. And while it's helped and there's plenty of benefits to it you know, I find that I’ve been me personally and I’ve been working harder and you know getting paid less for it which is again not to equate the financial to the work but it's very disheartening when eight months will go by and you're like I’ve been banging this fucking thing out and like.

KK: Yeah you know, there's a lot of noise and congestion out there.

Z TRIP: Yeah I am sort of concerned about like you know how long can, I keep my head above water in doing this you know what I mean and…

KK: Yeah, I feel you.

Z TRIP: You know, I’m grateful for my history and and you know, I’m not in a horrible place but for how long you know, and I look at other people who are incredible artists who were just now breaking into it or maybe a year or two ago who you know fuck like I’ve heard of a lot of people having to like move out of certain places or you know re-contextualize their livelihood in order to you know survive and that's .

KK: For sure.

Z TRIP: You know having amazing artists who provide service and goods to people struggling to survive crushes me.

KK: Yeah, for sure it's an uncertain time man and yeah doubling down and not getting paid it's challenging but also I don't know on the optimistic side that I sometimes wake up in the morning most mornings and just keep room, it's like you've got to believe in the in the journey you've got to believe.

Z TRIP: Without a doubt.

KK: And if this is a process then remember I and I said this to myself as well when I’m thinking because you know very rarely about times I kind of sign my head saying I’ve got to go and do this now I what would your 21 year old do?

Z TRIP: Oh, yeah, yeah.

KK: I mean because they would work double hard for nothing.

Z TRIP: Yeah, no they'd be ready to go, they'd be waking they'd be pulling you out of the bed like let's go.

KK: Yeah! What are you doing, old man? Get the fuck up.

                                              

Z TRIP: Yeah no, well I think it's double-edged sword because you know, for me I’m okay but I look at other DJs and other artists who are not and that's the part that I struggle with. It's like I wish there was some sort of for them you know government safety net or something for artists in general to just be able to like know that hey man, it's struggle so we'll bear down but I’m this isn't gonna wipe me out. That's all but it is a double-edged sword in the sense that there you know there's an upside to this and the thing that's kind of interesting is you have to look at it through that lens.

KK: Yeah.

Z TRIP: I think that's maybe another um another thing again hoping for the the you know hoping for the best preparing for the worst but the hoping for the best and and learning from you know taking everything that's a negative and trying to flip it into a positive is super crucial especially now is you know there is an upside to this it did level the playing field it brought everybody down to zero it took things that were getting a little too crazy in my opinion too flashy production too much of of things didn't matter .

KK: Sample pack.

Z TRIP: Musically you know what I mean like things that were happening I was like this is it's getting a little sort of you know.

KK: Predictable

Z TRIP: predictable and and bubble gum and not raw and like we need to dial it back a little bit more to me it brought, it's brought some of that down a little bit and made it sort of leveled the playing field that made some of the people who were riding high on that and taking advantage of that which you know more power to you, it was a time but I just don't know if like.

KK: It can come back from that.

Z TRIP: I don't know if you can come back like that now I think every you know everybody's brought it down a little bit so it's a little bit of a reset and so the positive in the reset is it allows you and me and everybody else to recalibrate and re-contextualize and you know I’ve done a lot of revisiting into music that I care about

KK: And your skills because skills are now back in play.

Z TRIP: Well because we're all under a microscope everyone's watching what you're doing.

KK: Yeah all the streams people are watching you do something and if you're just standing there hitting a couple buttons and dancing around like you don't have all this cool production and cool shit going on to distract from that.

KK: Bro I feel like I’m cheating when I’m on zoom right now because I would be in, I would be with you chopping it up and then we'd do something as a trailer for something .

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah.

KK: You know this is, this to me is like so easily it blows my brain but and the fact that other people are doing it, I’m like well don't I fall in line. I’ve got no choice you know so you're right about the lens and it's it's really hard on one side, not to fall in line because everyone has to work within these you know configurations that they set us but yeah you've within this join you've really got to maximize your potential haven't you .

Z TRIP: Yeah well I think you, you've got it, it's forcing people to either get better and evolve or not and for people like us, I feel like it's a situation where I do that every day anyway, so no matter what the fuck you're gonna throw at me I’m gonna land on my feet you know what I mean. And so that's the, it just means I gotta work harder and so that's what I’m doing. I’m working harder you know, and eventually I figure like that it'll equate somewhere, it'll work itself out in the in the long run somewhere, so you know I’m not really obsessed with again, the t getting paid for the amount that I’m doing right now. It's not you know,, although again it's a double-edged sword, one hand would be great to be able to just not worry about that shit but on the other hand maybe that's it's good to worry about that shit because it forces you to do or die. And you know is it easier to walk the balancing you know the balancing act with a net or without a net? Well without a net it's way more real and so you're going to pay attention way more it's do or die and so

KK: Yeah, for real.

Z TRIP: I feel like there's a level of that now and you're getting to see people you know either sink or swim under that. And it's an interesting time man, you know it's interesting time. But I will say, you know, for me my head's in a good place and my heart is in a good place and I have to thank my fans for for supporting me and keeping me afloat. and you know having the ability to have a you know have my twitch streamsm my instagram and you know Facebook, YouTube. All the all the ways I connect to have those lanes open and to be able to communicate directly has been therapy for me as much as it's been therapy for them. And to be honest if that wasn't in place I think I’d be way worse off so I’m at this moment like if I can do this or better, I’m happy you know what I mean, like and it's and it's also brought me closer to fans so I’m stoked on that. And it's like I mean, it's brought you and I like… everyone's doing, I just got hit up to do another podcast thing, just as we were talking somebody I saw pop up was like everyone's wanting to communicate and connect and this is now sort of the if you're not swimming in these streams man like you're probably missing out.

KK: For sure.

Z TRIP: and it's it's great to reconnect it's great to reconnect man.

KK: and what's really dope is that you know first of all um before I go any further with this one, but I’ll say yeah like just reiterating really what's at the top. Your fans are super hardcore and and I think as time moves on and progresses within this time your level will go up and their attention will go up and it's again, it's reacting to the circumstances. it's only going to make things ever more advanced and from a personal artistical point of view isn't it you know it's.

Z TRIP: Yeah yeah.

KK: and that's why art the creatives creative I mean you talk about the comedians I mean you know we can take references to you know cooking programs to be a producer you know to be a producer you have to have these ingredients like your records and stuff and yeah and yeah you have how deep they fold into themselves creatively like comedians do when they're up on stage and all these different if you pay enough attention now you'll see a huge rise in the arts and culture the whole thing will just flourish in a whole different direction that wouldn't have happened before right it wouldn't have ever happened.

Z TRIP: no no and and what's interesting too is I’ve started to see a lot more people find their voice you know um not just musically but socially you know what I mean it's a very interesting thing you know being silent or not um in these times standing for something or not um it's just very interesting you know just picking apart sort of the the environment is really ripe for for speaking up and and saying something and and communicating and as a aaas someone who consumes art to see artists say those things where I can be like oh there's some refuge in that like am I the only one going crazy no I’m not thank god fuck because like it's a crazy time so hearing these artists spit these.

KK: that's right.

Z TRIP: you know lifelines to me where it's like at least I can have refuge in knowing that I’m not alone and or you know there are more of us than there are of them in in siding on the right side of things or whatever it is or just a sense of community you know I I feel like there was a moment there where you know I grew up listening to public enemy and rage against the machine and the last poets and protest music and empowering music music that made you recognize you know self and it's very interesting you know that's the reason what I mean so it's very interesting to me to um to be in an environment musically where there was a moment where I wasn't really hearing any of that stuff as much as I thought I would or should and I feel like now there's also a level of like well we got nothing to lose so fucking just put it out there you know.

KK: For sure, for sure. What was it what was it like working with chuck because you and him are tight you you guys have been friends for a long time was it um what's it like.

Z TRIP: it's great I mean chuck is chuck is a you know wise observer pays attention to everything you know um the conversations we would have amazing you know what I mean like you know definitely prolific profit you know very aware his perspective um always very interesting to me you know what I mean just really sort of dissecting a little bit of of of history through him through his eyes you know what I mean he's you know it's chuck d man.

KK: yeah yeah you must have pinched yourself too many times though bro I mean I remember tour supported him for like four shows and I was constantly just just yeah a little bit of shitbeing lost every houre.

Z TRIP: yeah he's amazing he's amazing man he's uh he's he's an incredible um you know uh a incredible source I mean you know the thing that I used to always love is um when we were touring um it was a ll and myself public enemy de la soul ice cube.

KK: was that like a rock the bells type situation.

Z TRIP: Yeah it was uh, it was called the Kings of the Mike tour

KK: That's it

Z TRIP: and I’d worked with Chuck in the past but he got to see me and and LL doing our thing and you know, he would always stay outside of the stage and when we were done, he was always sort of paying attention, observing you know again, an observer and I remember him coming up to me and he was like dude, you're the Maestro, you're back there hitting everything because it's just LL and me, and its proper MC and DJ that's it, what you hear and what you see is real and raw, there's no overdubs or any bull shit. it's real so there'd be moments, where you know very much like a James Brown thing where LL would call out , “Hey we're going to do this”. I’ll be like oh all right! cool!. It's like a lot of bobbing and weaving, but yeah, having the full tool kit at my dispose allowed me to sort of bob and weave. But I remember like you know coming off stage and Cuck would be like, yo man, you're like count basie up there like doing your thing or you know he would give me like these analogous sports analogies of certain players, like man you're like the assist with this. Oh, that thing you did there was an alley-oop to that. it was so…it was very very gratifying to and also I picked up some game from Chuck as well. I remember one time we were pulling into a sound check and there was the Public Enemy bus that had you know, all the members of Public Enemy that he was rocking with the band and I remember they all pulled in and Chuck wasn't there. I was like where's Chuck? and then like maybe an hour later Chuck pulled up in a car and that he was driving and I was like, yo why aren't you on the bus? He's like man I choose my time, but he's like you know, they're all watching Kung Fu flicks and like smoking weed or doing whatever, they're doing on the bus, whatever part tour bus shit. So, he's like I like to be by myself. I can think I can take messages, calls, whatever so, he would follow, not all the time but certain spots he would just rent a car and sort of follow behind the bus and like stay at his own hotel in the car. I was like that that's the fucking like that's the Jedi Yoda move. How to tour correctly, you know.

KK: Like 101.

Z TRIP: it's not something you know,it's not something that you would just sort of pick up on, but it was like oh that's game! I got to learn that! I got like okay, that's good because like you know, peace of mind on the road is crucial, so like engaging! Listen to podcasts, have that moment to yourself, whatever not be on the bus with everybody! That was game, so I always I was like picking up game from that dude.

KK: Tell me the story that you told me… tell them the story that you told me about your first time with LL and he you gave him the record without the vocals

Z TRIP: oh yeah that was um that was big, that was a big, that was a big moment for me so.

KK: That was a big step in hip-hop by the way.

Z TRIP: Yeah it was also a big step in in my career with LL. Hold on, I got to move a little bit because the sun is like… we've been talking so long the sun is …

KK: that's what I like to hear!

Z TRIP: it's creeping up man, which is kind of nice but I gotta… hold on a second.. I gotta put the shades down man I’m starting to like get burnt out over here.

KK: Get your shades on.

Z TRIP: Yeah hold on, here we go just a little bit man.. I’m cooking over here! all right so um yeah… I mean, linking up with LL was incredible. We had met, had taken some some meetings with some tv producer who was looking to do a show where they wanted LL to host ,they wanted me to do the music for it and DJ and it ended up not happening but in those meetings, my manager then had pitched to his manager to see if he wanted to come and do a guest spot surprise guest spot on a set I was doing for south by southwest. I was headlining a set in in Austin and I just I was like oh this is not gonna happen but he said yes and he agreed to do mama said knock you out, so he agreed to do one song I was like yo this is amazing! and we had set I think in a day or two, we'd set time to go to the studio to work on the track and the night before I was like well what happens if somebody wants to hear, you know more stuff and it's like I as a fan if I saw LL and he did one song I’d be like what??? so the the idea for me was like okay well we gotta do Rock The Bells, right and we gotta do, I Need Love like at the very least.. so I ended up looking around, I know as a DJ that they never pressed up on the 12 inch of rock the bells they there's there's two versions of Rock the Bells, there's Rock the Bells the original, which is like over some some bells ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

KK: Yeah, yeah

Z TRIP: Right and then there's the version everybody knows um but there was never an instrumental to that to either of them and so I started looking at old YouTube clips and I started to see all the clips I saw were of him rapping over the his vocals, which you know led me to believe that maybe he doesn't even have a copy of the instrumental, you know. So I got to the point where I was like wait what is Rock The Bells? I was like… it's an 808, I have an 808… it's um the stabs.. which is actually an AC DC guitar riff from an AC DC song …I have that song. There's a couple other little bits and pieces, trouble funk break I’m like I have that trouble funk thing, there's another sirone rocket in the pocket ,I’m like I got that I’m like I have all the ingredients! I need to just remake this because I know I know the song verbatim, I’ve been listening to it forever right ? So yeah I sat down and I pulled out the 808 and um programmed it laid it all out um did it verbatim, pitched it, tuned it, made it sound really big too, like got the base to crack and everything and went to the rehearsal and we did Mama Said Knock You Out, three or four times and then we had a little bit extra time, I was like Yo, we should do Rock The Bells, he's like all right! and so we launched into it and he went to rap the first line, and didn't hear his vocal underneath and so he was like where'd you get this? and you know as the chorus came around scratching I’m like I made this he's like what??? and so we finished the song he's like play it again, play and we did the song like maybe six or seven times!

KK: damn!

Z TRIP: we're both sweating, we're both hyped, and he was like what else you got in that computer? like what you know like and we just the the chemistry, we had was starting to sort of bubble and it and it was like the thing, that I realized in that moment was our work ethic is very much the same in that its attention to detail, everything matters. He's incredibly involved in the process, as I am and when you see somebody, when game recognized game like you just automatically know, oh it's the same thing with you and I, you know when you see someone who you just know pays you know what I’m saying like you just know and it's like okay well half of the world just dissolves because now you're like oh we what else can we do this like this is so…

KK: crazy

Z TRIP: you know him him hearing me make remake the instrumental and just do it and I was like look man, I’m a purist, I can't if I can help, it I’m not gonna put you on a stage rapping to a beat that we could do ourselves, it would take a little bit more work but it's gonna sound better in the long run. and the funny thing is you know then we were messing around, he's like you know uh he told me he's like you know the the mardi gras bells, the ding ding ding ding, he's like those were originally in that beat and Rick Rubin took him out and gave him to run the emcee for peter piper I was like oh word he's like yo throw those bells back in so I went back the next day and put the bells in.

KK: So sick.

Z TRIP: and then we did the show with the bells. It was like, it was just this moment of like it was just so fucking dope, history be on stage with LL for the first time, running Rock the Bells with the Bells in it with him. Yo it was, it was hip-hop. it was fucking hip-hop like a motherfucker and you know.

KK: I think that's like the most important thing any of my friends have ever done to be fair.

Z TRIP: probably it's probably the most hip-hop thing I’ve ever done that's for sure! but um but yeah man he, you know he fucking smashed it, you know what I mean. It was an incredible show and like you know we both got off stage and we were just like hyped and we're like gotta do more of this! so we just just evolved our collaboration ,really sort of evolved from then and um and you know we we turned you know five, ten ,minutes into 15 minutes, into a half hour to 45 to a 60 minute show to an hour and 15 to like it's just the show got to progress because it was equal parts he and I sharing ideas

KK: and like a work ethic.

Z TRIP: Yeah yeah but like proper like dj, mc this is how hip-hop is supposed to be, how we know it, presented and then it became this thing of like the b-boy in you comes out where you're trying to better yourself from the last time so always we're always pushing each other

KK: love it

Z TRIP: and it's like you know to be able to be on stage with the G.O.A.T. you know what I mean like that's the guy right there and you know to be able to be creating hip-hop,like that and not just you know on stage but in all the other things we've done, has been amazing because he's ,like I said, huge mentor I I just the level of respect that I think he and I have for each other is incredible. and it you know the cool thing about it is at some point, it's all the other stuff that comes with fame and notoriety and making music and all the other things which are of importance, but when you and the person you're collaborating with are sitting down you're like…yo those snares need to be tuned this way or that drum needs to be or like hey we should rub it like we should do this here or like we should throw that brake beat over here…. it's likewhen all that other stuff is is melted away and you're focused in on the craft with somebody who cares about it as much as you do.

KK: That shit is incredible

Z TRIP: and it's an it's I can't, it's like a different level of high. yeah you know I mean that like I can't so I’ve been you know I’m lucky enough to to say that I’ve been able to share those experiences a lot with him and you know it's just kind of funny man because it came together organically and it's a very real dope thing and I really care about it ! And I am, I hold it in very high regard, you know what I mean and it's one of those things where I’ll stop pretty much anything I’m doing to focus in on that because not even so much of like the notoriety is great but it's the I don't get that feeling from much anything else to the level I do, when I’m working with him so that's like that's the the thing, it's like oh yeah you know like you know you want to do some shit let's go! like it's it's the b-boy is like let's go at any moment so it's an amazing thing.

KK: that's just fire wow!

Z TRIP: he's if you think about it too man like of all the cats that came out around that time… like yeah how many are still doing it? and to that level man and are that you know known and successful and it's like i it's amazing man! it's just it's an amazing friendship and it's amazing um you know working relationship and and yeah I’m just you know again man mentor and uh blessed to be able to be working on stuff with that guy.

KK: Fucking amazing .

Z TRIP: yeah it's wild, it's wild!

KK: it's wow there's your two degrees separation for me.

Z TRIP: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!

KK: and again you know this world is crazy you make your opportunities, or you don't. You just put out like you say, you put out and you see things through, but whether it's good, bad, doesn't mater, be consistent and

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah and and that's like you know, I feel like me, working on that Rock The Bells instrumental was you know… dare I say instrumental in you know us uh doing more stuff, but it's like I would have done that with with anybody because that's just my work ethic. it's like so, if I have an opportunity, it goes back to sort of the one line of like you know, no matter the test big or small do it right or don't do it at all. And that was my thing of like yeah, I was probably tired as fuck from being up and you know creating that you know, spending eight hours that I didn't have to do, but I wanted to do it! and that's that's kind of matters it's like just do good work and don't be concerned about like oh I logged these hours or these likes or kind of goes back to what I’m saying, then it's like it does eventually you know people will the things will connect you know, but always be about the work and about the work ethic and about the…

KK: Showing up and doing it .

Z TRIP: Yeah the the putting the, putting that in front of anything else because that’s what matters is the art, the art matters the craft matters, the you know doing that kind of work is the payment really. Everything else just if you keep doing it, you keep and you be about that then I feel like um opportunities and notoriety and all the things you're hunting for eventually just they get, they line up behind you because that you know it all. When you're that forward thinking that shit just falls in line because it's never really about that it's about yeah

KK: You're right bro

Z TRIP: You know so I don't know that's I think my you know if you talk about strategy I guess that's it. It's just a strategy. Don't make it about anything else man, just be about to be about the business, you know get your work done dude, be about the art, be about the craft.

KK: you know what a great sentiment to end the podcast of my brother.

Z TRIP: yeah man well hold on a second I there's two things I don't want to do…. I don't want to end right this second but more importantly we've been talking about me this whole fucking time which is good on everybody for you know, I appreciate you checking out but I can't just be on a podcast with you and be like yo what have you been up to the last fucking15 years! can you fill me in on some shit man how have you been what have you been up to this is too one-sided yeah

KK: no this is …

Z TRIP: time out time out

KK: Here well, you know I’ve been in and out I did the you know, I did the project with Them&Us with my then girlfriend and when we broke up it was like yo! what am I gonna do in my life man, Because you know obviously, after eight years shit's gonna change pretty quickly. But a friend of mine said to me oh you should you know restart the Killa Kela thing but maybe you know I heard this podcast thing you know this is like in 2016….I think it was 2017… and I said all right a podcast, what would you do? you have to talk people, you know, you have discussions or you can talk on your own and uh I immediately thought they were like yo you got loads of friends in music! you know hit him up and obviously like being single now I was like well it would be good to regroup with people now that I need them you know. I wanna kind of put the put them you know the armor back on my body for this interim and uh yeah I started doing it and I didn't realize how many friends a gave a) shit b) were on call and c) were just totally up for giving this new podcast thing which was still quite a a reasonably new thing. That you factor in in the music industry so I was like all right let's give it a go anyway, I’ve done like this is this this one when it comes out be like the 210.

Z TRIP: wow, wow yeah okay, so a question yeah in your 200th you know episode-ish, what are the top I mean I’ve given you a couple pearls of wisdom, what are the top five things that you can tell me that you have learned or that are you know that matter give me some some…

KK: Knowledge

Z TRIP: Some game, some knowledge so I can leave here as well-being like ..okay what have you learned? what matters? what doesn't matter?

KK: Two things I’ve learned, two things I learned that are super key.. one's a little bit more… yeah no I can say them both… firstly the art of listening. Like you're saying about chuck and LL, that's just paramount. Like you learn to listen. When you do a podcast because okay, there's elements where you're waiting for the next thing to say, you find the next hook that someone's saying. Like today's podcast you've excelled, you like there's some people that just aren't like PR savvy like they were like countless hooks within your conversations but because you're listening and you just you just fall into these zones and and then your questions become a lot more truer because you're listening. So listening is everything. Secondly and this is actually probably the most important thing. because within within the first 10 of my podcasts I’ve had I mean you know, I’ve had pretty much the who's who of music. in dance and hip hop genre, right all of them… the real conversations happen when the camera turns off. Because they've had a conversation with you and they're in a comfy place now and they may have had an extra drink on top of the two, they've had over a conversation. Every single one of them suffers the same problems as it doesn't matter how far up the chain you are. You could be the most successful, you can be that level they have problems with the agent, problems the manager. they're probably you know and uh you know you don't see or hear that. And I’ve been so privileged to have been sitting there and sometimes I’m just so surprised at the people. that even my own perception of a person, I’m like yeah but you're xyz you can't possibly have these! It's just it's it's a musical fact of life you know what I mean.

Z TRIP: right

KK: and I just wish some people would you know like. us coming up back in the day and I’m sure you were the same in some capacity, you you aspire to these people you aspire for these things, but you don't realize. It's not the machine behind them, it's the mental state that you have to be and if you're constantly wondering what the other person's doing and whatmakes them so special that they have it doesn't work like that , it's what's going on in here entirely isn't it? Right?


Z TRIP: that's great, that's great. well I did say 5 all right so that's two give me give me three more pearls of wisdom because this is great listening! love it! big fan of that!

KK: um The other the other interesting thing is when I when I broke up with my then girlfriend and also it will this is also contributive to probably a lot of my career prior to that with Killa Kela, I never realized how fucking lazy I was,you know. I mean I say this all the time, I got to be kind of the Bill Gates attitude, I still have the, give give a lazy person a hard job because I find the quickest way to get it done fast, you know. um I still have that in me, but when I was literally left on the wayside and someone says to me right do a new project like no this isn't a music project this is a this is pretty much setting up your own tv network project you know, and you just suddenly.,, so yeah I think with any new project I’ve learned this particularly through, this is once you've got that side of your brain working, you can literally adapt each learning curve of each particular thing, you can adapt it to an it's just a different language, on a different piece of software, it's a different camera with a different thing or so it's a different crack bit of software. it's just got to figure it out that's another awesome thing I’ve learned with the podcast and you know video world. crazy.

Z TRIP: What about h the the worst the downside ? give me the, “don't do these things” the “this is a horrible train wreck”. I mean you know, I I want to share your ups and your downs. I haven't really hung out with you or talked to you in a very long time so you know pick and choose them wisely you know what I mean I don't want to you know nothing to incriminate yourself I’m just very curious, you know.

KK: Um the car wrecks, I think the hardest thing that I did was 10 live shows. Like I had like the main act the b list, c lists. I wouldn't get into it because to me they're all the same, they're all fucking awesome. They come on the show, they showed up, it was an audience only, it was like a tv show bro. It was like Ellen, it was like Ellen’s show but for music. And I’d be would go live on Facebook, you would get a shit ton of people watching and that just freaked me the fuck out, but the preparation and production was what was the real contributor to the sweat. That shit is so hard to put on like, when you haven't got a producer an assistant, a director, you haven't got a vision mixer, you haven't got the lights guy, you've only got two cameramen, you've got an engineer, you know and you're taking all this burden. And then you've got an extra couple of you've added an extra six VTs into the mix, so that you can change over sets while that's playing in for five minutes and then you've got like two co-hosts that need to know where they're going to be positioned or which camera's going to and I’m just like on my ones and I did it 10 times. I can't believe I did it but to think that I went through that and to go back in it that was that arguably, I’m just going putting going through my head with that right now it was a shit storm. That could have gone really wrong had I not I’ve had such a solid team and yeah just tenacity to want to drive it through you know? That was, I couldn't do it now though. I don't think I could. That's a lot

Z TRIP: You probably could. You underestimate yourself. What I mean like there's also the thing of sometimes the the necessity of not knowing but like figuring it out as you go, trial by fire I think it is.

KK: Oh, true, true trial by fire yeah, right yeah. Maybe you're right and actually to do that many in a stint, I mean, I think what also was that which sends chills down my spine is I kind of had you know Goldie was one of the main characters, then there was Basement Jaxx, there was Dynamo, Magician, there was Grooverider, like I had these these peers, these people that were just like, they were just showing up saying “ Yeah, Kels! I would come down” and I was like yeah!. I’ve got honor this because these are my heroes A. and B. they're doing it because they believe in the project, so all of a sudden it's like, it's the way, yeah you know I’m saying?

Z TRIP: Yeah, of course, but that's also the pressure, that I think we understand from being like okay here's the mic, you're on in 10 minutes, you don't know what I’m going to do. All right well, let's we'll start with a simple beat box and we'll just get them here, so you just sort of you know, you'll never let them know that you don't that you're making it up as you go. But like there's a level of of performance with that, that's like that's inherent in what we do, so it's probably funny if I go back and I watch some of this stuff chances are I wouldn't know that you're like secretly sweating right it's like

KK: It's kind of true

Z TRIP: What you're saying about these other people who are like they're having the same issues with managers and agents whatever and you wouldn't necessarily know because your perception. So I think that's you know, whatever the… never let them see you sweat kind of like, you know never allude to like what's going on you know. Always do the show and process it afterwards. I think is crucial again, a comedy thing, a comedy tactic, like all comes back to that you know. What I mean like some of these comedians are some of the most tortured individuals’ self you know. Like they're just there's a lot of to have a genius mind to churn out that kind of stuff. Some people are a little damaged and a little sort of like you know, so they they process that in whatever the way they do outside but on stage it comes out in a way that's therapy, right. So it's like yeah, you know I connect with that, I connect with the therapy on stage and especially you know especially if I’m in an environment where I’m like, I don't know you know but to be able to riff and come out on top and come out with some new material because you can only get that from being vulnerable right.

KK: That's so true. No you're absolutely right. Actually I do have a story, I do have a story for you. I don't think I’ve ever told you this but it was on tour with you, in fact I’m not even sure it's going to make the cut. If it does I’ll be very surprising.

Z TRIP: That's fine, it's all good yeah.

KK: So I think we were parking up it must have been California somewhere because I was flying back and I remember you guys were on the tour bus and you dropped me off and you were like yo, if you're leaving the bus look we're heading up across um up towards Portland we're going to you know Canada or wherever so can you get rid of this bag right. And I’m like yeah, so you gave me like an empty bag of like nothing but leftover like weed or something and I was like yeah sure, let's just put it in my pocket and I just went to the hotel, I didn't think anything of it. I woke up in the morning like super late for the flight and I’m like oh yeah go go go go! you know This is before uber times. this was like get a yellow cab and try and call up with an English accent time right

Z TRIP: oh yeah, yeah.

KK: So I had to like make it happen super quick, you know and put on my best American accent I get down to the airport and I’m rushing it through because I’m thinking you know I speed past the dog, I speed past the… I go through to check, the customs with the bags and I’m about to take my jacket off and I’m like AHHHH! and I’d casually, it was almost like for me it couldn't have gone fast enough, this slow-motion movement of putting my jacket back on and just kind of scratching my chin and putting the other rucksack on and walking casually out and then speeding straight to the nearest bin I was just like this get this jacket off.

Z TRIP: Yeah man

KK: Oh my god that was just like I don't think I ever told you that story but

Z TRIP: The moment I almost got you deported, and yeah banned from coming back into the States.

KK: But ironically you did you did help me with my visa right.

Z TRIP: Yeah, I’m sorry, it's funny! You know that that happened to me um coming back from Canada, I remember I went, and I did a Shambala festival like very or maybe it wasn't even that maybe earlier than that. It was way earlier than that I think it was, one of the first times I was in Canada, but I went up there this is back with the Meal and Radar when we did the Bombshelter DJ’s, so we went up there and did a show and somebody handed me a joint or whatever and I don't think I was smoking that heavy back then but I was like oh cool Canadian weed, this has got like this good weed so I should I’ll save this for maybe later and I put it in my my little the little tiny um the short pocket in your jeans

KK: Oh yeah

Z TRIP: Put it in there and I was like cool, all right, whatever and I went through customs everything whatever and I was on the plane, I went to the bathroom and as I was pulling up my pants in the bathroom, I realized there's joints in my pocket. I’m on the plane and I was so freaked out by like here's the fucking thing is, I was home free. I should have just fucking kept it, but I was so freaked out. I was like that I just instantly threw it away. Like I was, I’d already gone through all he’s stupid like you know like I sat down because I was just sweating because I was like ah he's like getting off me like this jeopardized me flying and me doing shows and like the businessman of me was like what are you doing?!?!?

KK: Yeah yeah yeah, literally crumbling

Z TRIP: About it but the fact, that I made it through everything and that was also a moment where I was like oh wow security, like okay, like you know it just makes you sort of think about you, as you know especially if you're probably high, even then at the time, if you're like going to the airport you're high and you're probably like everyone's looking at me. You know, when you're really like, you know they're looking for deeper shit and like the little joint that you have in your pocket no one's you know…

KK: But this is the thing man, like in your head, in my head, these scenarios, they play out but you're really thinking hold on I’m one of the good guys here.

Z TRIP: Yeah, yeah, yeah

KK: Don't kill me off! Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I literally was on the plane like going back to Arizona, probably had like another 45 minutes on the flight and I was like yeah I totally made it man, like you could have celebrated you could have got off the planet check this out and I totally blew it

KK: Oh My God. Dude it's really great to catch up with you man.

Z TRIP: You too my brother and hopefully it's really great to catch up

KK: we'll get beer together properly soon

Z TRIP: yeah man, I don't you know, who knows when all this is gonna you know get back together and in order, but you know at some point soon you know, I don't know if it's me coming over there you coming over here but

KK: It's going to make it happen man we've got to make it

Z TRIP: I want to get on stage with you, we got to do something again, that's the part that I missed man. The beer is cool, but we got to do some shit man. That'll be fun. Well I think, I have by the way, I think I have, I was going through some old hard drives of the Shifting Gears tour and I think I have some audio I remember, I came across this is a while ago, but I know I came across some audio of us doing stuff that we recorded. I have to go back and really sort of spend a minute, but I’ll find it because I that would be some fun shit

KK: That'd be some amazing shit, bro. I think I remember doing… didn't you would do the trumpet scratching and I would do the trumpet and we would go back and forth on that and then we would break and do the drums and we'd go back and forth from the drums and things and then Busdriver would come in, some great moments.

                             

Z TRIP: Yeah we were riffing, like that was that whole thing was like, I remember you were actually great because we were I mean like just to describe the tour really quick for people who don't know. There was my set of turntables main, I had another DJ or two I don't remember if there was two but we had another two to four sets of turntables off to the side, then I had a drum set, with a drummer and then a second Drumset that I would play, we had a big video screen behind us and we had moments where people come up play video games and we would play the music to the video games as a whole scratching, DVDs. There was it was super high tech, super head of duty and way ahead of its time for sure and the thing that was interesting was anytime you would come on, it allowed me to get off stage and everybody off stage and you would get like five, ten minutes to just “hey everybody you don't know who this guy is but he's the shit check him out. Killa Kela” and you would go, and you'd blow all their fucking minds. And it would be that moment of busting but like sit back and be like oh yeah. That moment of like you were like and I wanted you so badly to be on every run because we were doing, we had you know we had busdriver we had ac alone, they were easy we had Dresh at one point, Soup from j5 we had whipper, whip came out on a couple like it was..

KK: yeah he was dope he was lovely as well.

Z TRIP: yeah man incredible so you had like you know old ,young, you beatboxing, it was like us all jamming together, it was way ahead of his time .I’ll tell you one more story I don't know if you knew or not but during that tour

KK: Talk to me

Z TRIP: It was rough because we had a full semi with merch, lighting all the people who were running everything visuals, all the people, everybody, the musicians and then we had a trailer behind it with like more of the gear, flat screens and DJs and drum sets and like full everything was maxed out. And when we booked the tour, certain venues booked me as the DJ and so they thought I was just gonna roll into their venue and be like scratch, scratch, two turntables and that was it. And somehow in some of these places they didn't convey that we had a full production, we had a load in and the loadout and it was a full deal. And I remember we came into one House of Blues and uh somewhere in the middle states, I don't know, Ohio or some shit but we rolled in and we got there and there was another bus there and we were like, oh shit there's another whoever and we rolled in and they had booked me to do their small room upstairs, that was like you know whatever just smaller room, but it could only fit like maybe six people on the stage, it was small. And we rolled in and there's a whole other group setting up and everything and we're like what's going on? and basically they had Ted Nugent was playing there and so we we had to we couldn't do our show so they had an early show and then we were gonna basically as they were loading out we were loading in

KK: Oh shit.

Z TRIP: and it was the worst because those people couldn’t give a shit about us. They were like we're Ted Nugent and we were like…. but the craziest shit was that to deal with that. But I remember while we were waiting to like you know we had our line of people out the door waiting to come in and see us and their show was happening and towards the end it was super like you know, Ted Nugent style but at one point he lit a crossbow…uh not a crossbow but a bow and arrow, he lit the fucking arrow on fire and had a target on the other side of the stage and shot a flaming the thing into it in the target, it on fire. We were like like it was just the craziest, it was just the craziest moment and then like as that ended there was still sort of smoke in the air. like they were moving their shit on and we were like bringing in turntables and drum kits and they were like get out of the way! It was just like we were trying to and we had to set up our show which took like two hours or something we had to set up in like half hour and it was just but yeah and somewhere I have a picture of like the marquee house of blues like Z Trip and Ted Nugent and it was like it's just fucking hilarious. Somewhere I got I have some great photos from that, that whole tour was marred by these moments of DJ booth based nightmares Oh it was just everything, like everything was we were struggling with, we had a bus driver at one point who was like just like such a dick. He was so like not cool and he was we and then we had this sort of like I remember, we had to also…we were a little afraid that he might be falling asleep so like one of us had to always stay up with him when we were driving because like it was like everyone took a rotating time of like sitting up with the driver because he was the only driver we had and we had to get to the next place but like you had to stay awake to keep him awake, so we're up there just talking like oh yeah fly fishing yeah great, like whatever the fuckin we were talking about

KK: Oh my that's horrible, I mean that's just brutal that's like the worst tour situation isn't it

Z TRIP: Yeah there was there was a lot of, you gotta look back and laugh. Oh man it's you know… but all of it all the learning experiences all of it. Figuring it out as you go and I’m happy that I was able to to just to be just to absorb all that stuff man, again at the end of the day like I’m the experiences I’ve had, you know I could probably sit down one day and do a full-on you know the tell-all book or the podcast or series or something but it's just funny man being able to talk with people who were there around that time like you know you were on that bus

KK: That's the shit, people tell me stuff because they run the bus or they were on the flight and I would never remember doing it, it's great having people with you, that experience, that shit too it's you imagine being like a DJ for all your career and only ever having a company of you know just yourself and you miss shit don't you? yeah I’m glad I was able to experience that stuff it's funny.

Z TRIP: I was kind of joking with Charlie Tuna the other day, about we were talking about how crazy things are and how he was like man I got to find other ways to you know… so he's doing art and things like that, and I was jokingly sort of saying to him but like isn't it funny, that we you know at least we got to we got to experience the heyday of you know… again very sort of like you know pessimistic, dark humor but like yeah we we were there remember when they had budgets, remember when we toured around tour buses, like you know that whole kind of thing you know, just sort of joking around but like there's a moment of like realizing like yeah, I do all these festivals and to do all have all these experiences. I’m super glad that I was able to do that and who knows what's around the corner I feel like eventually it'll level itself out but you know just do just to have been able to come this far with it's humbling and it's amazing and

KK: So well you know there's lines in the sand. so let's see where see what happens afterwards you know. Yeah it's a revolutionary thing we're in at the moment isn't it.

Z TRIP: Yeah, you either have to jump over to the other side of the canyon or you fall in the canyon right now, so you know it's sink or swim, but you know I don't know making the best of it. Like everybody else man, so it's great to talk to you dude, you know I don't mean to like have this go… this is probably long it's like probably the longest one

KK: no way but like no way.

Z TRIP: Really, it's really good to chop it up bro you too long overdue man. Too long. Call the kids sometimes and we don't have to do it in front of everybody, you can just pick up the phone and be like hey man! it works both ways though I know

KK: But my brother, we shall do that. we should do that and listen anyone is who will be listening out there right now will totally take the jewels that have come through in this conversation that question so many moments. Man thank you so much for joining us today

Z TRIP: Yeah man , no I’m happy to be here and um and the only thing I just want to plug one thing, just because it's a consistent. The first Thursday of every month you can catch me on Twitch/DJZtrip and it's 7 p.m. pacific and I do that with insomniac and that's the first Thursday of every month and I might do more things here and there, but it's just the first Thursday of every month for sure you will see me there tune in and um you know play some music we'll unwind a little bit

KK: we'll put the link down on it as well we'll put the link in the YouTube as well where we go there we go we got you son

Z TRIP: My man. my man

KK: My brother DJ Z TRIP in the house thank you so much my brother!

Z TRIP: Thank you man come on love you bro.

KK: love you too brother, Killa Kela podcast strike it again with the vengeance don't forget to share people, you know what time it is music and street culture, we are like that, peace.